Article: Ammon Bundy Speaks From Occupied Oregon Refuge...

[Teacher Terry]

IL: YOu are absolutely right.

[early morning]

We have peak value at birth, then - perfect innocence - and become less and less important as human beings as we age?

I think this is not the time or place for this conversation, so I won't continue. It's just something I've been thinking more and more about, and I'm not sure of my own thinking just yet. But I thought it would be rude to post that question (in a weak moment!) and then just let it drop with no response.... sorry, I'll post it somewhere else when I'm more sure where I'm going with it.

[jp1]

Of course, but some children have horrible parents, and I don't think that gives the state the right to shoot at them.

Would you have expected the cops to allow themselves to get shot instead? Unfortunately Finicum didn't value his own life so it's not terribly surprising that he was willing to put the other people in the vehicle at risk as well.

[rodeosweetheart]

Would you have expected the cops to allow themselves to get shot instead? Unfortunately Finicum didn't value his own life so it's not terribly surprising that he was willing to put the other people in the vehicle at risk as well.

I don't know if they were shooting at the cops from inside of the vehicle. I don't know anything more than I saw/heard on the video. I don't know whether Finicum was reaching for a gun, or holding up empty hand.

From what I saw, my opinion is that they were going after the vehicle and its occupants too aggressively.

But I am not in law enforcement, so I don't know the ins and outs of rules of engagement.

From what I heard/saw, it appeared to me that Finicum was offering himself up to get shot, by going outside, so tht they would not shoot on the car. I would have thought shooting him dead would have brought things to a stop until they could evaluate, but again, I am not in law enforcement and do not know the rules of engagement. To me it looked like he was sacrificing himself for those in the car--"if they want to shoot somebody, let them shoot me," or words to tht effect, thought I hrd.

I think it is very sad that they shot Finicum. If Finicum had shot any officers, I would have thought that was very sad. Very, very sad that they could not negotiate a non-violent way to end this.]

That is my opinion on the matter, JP1.

[jp1]

I guess the,problem is that the law enforcement officers don't know what's going on in the car. One guy gets out and reaches for a gun in his pocket. They can't assume that he's 'taking one for the team' to save the rest of the people in the car. The cops have to assume the worst about the people in the car or they could end up dead.

[rodeosweetheart]

Exactly, the cops had know way of knowing who or what was going on in the car, and then the situation escalates, and things happen so fast. I am guessing that is why they have pretty strict rules of engagement, and then they have to see if they were followed.

Although it would be really hard to keep that at the top of one's mind during the event--I could never do that job, and I am glad that there are people who can, and very grateful for their service.

[Rogar]

It is probably in most of the major medias, but Ammon and Ryan Bundy along with 5 other of the leaders in the standoff were found not guilty of conspiracy and firearms charges. The Bundys still face charges in Nevada for another armed standoff, but it looks like they are basically scot free of all their occupation charges in Oregon. From the brief reports I read, it sounded like some silver tonged talk from the defense, but I'm not sure I could rule out some sort of jury biased?

How you could stage an armed occupation of a federal facility that would in the very least put the general public, federal employees, and law enforcement in fear of their lives and safety, not to mention the cost to the tax payers, is a mystery. I can hardly believe that is the intent or protection under the right to bear arms. Something seems amiss?

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-w...und-not-guilty