Article: Stop watching “Hoarders”: Our lurid reality TV obsession with mental illness

[Ultralight]

Worth a read...

http://www.salon.com/2016/01/23/stop...rossed_a_line/

[Chicken lady]

I wasn't able to finish the article because the ad wouldn't load on m iPad and caused the page to crash and reload.

but that's kind of how I feel about hoarders. In the early episodes, they talk a lot about the psychology of dealing with a hoarder and what the people see experiencing and how you have to approach them, but even then, they don't actually do much of that.

it's a little like my experience in teacher training "this is how children grow and develop and this is how they learn best. And then over here we have lesson plans, curriculum, classroom structure, assessment and school policy." - overlap? Minimal.

one thing that makes me want to scream at them is when they tell the hoarder "you don't have time to look at every little thing. Or we're never going to get this done" Yes, they do. That's where they need to start. Looking at every little thing. Making a decision about every gum wrapper until they can't stand it any more and they say "you can throw away the gum wrappers." Or they may have a clean house, but they won't be any better. And what they need more than a clean house is to learn how to throw away gum wrappers (symbol).

Or they say "you're going to have to trust us so we can help you." No, you are going to have to earn their trust before you can help them. Which may mean you spend your day making a neatly folded pile of dirty sweaters, so they can see all the dirty sweaters and choose twice as many as you think they could ever possibly need to wash and keep. It also means that if you promise to take the rest of the dirty sweaters to the laundramat and on to goodwill - you have to actually do that.

i don't think you should lie to mentally ill people unless someone's life is in danger and there is no other choice. We already have enough trouble with reality without you misrepresenting it.

[catherine]

So funny that you posted that article. Last night DH and I were flipping through channels and landed on a Hoarders episode. It was the most uncomfortable one I've ever seen and I was disgusted by it. In it, the hoarder expressed that he didn't really want his family in his house cleaning up (outside was fine), but then the next day, he allowed them to go to his bedroom and throw things out. While cleaning, the sisters and mother found porn, cross-dressing paraphernalia and S&M stuff. They went into tearful tirades about "how could HE do this to ME!!!"

TMI in a big way as far as I was concerned. I wasn't offended from a moral perspective (as long as he's not hurting anyone, what do I care?), but I certainly was from a human dignity perspective. It was a new low in TV voyeurism.

So, I am swearing off Hoarders.

[rodeosweetheart]

Wow, Catherine, that's a new low, even for Hoarders, which is very low to start with!

[ApatheticNoMore]

Most people are somewhat "mentally ill" (if you include depression, anxiety, minor and major addictions - and add a few for those whose mentally illness is primarily directed outward - sociopathy) so yea mote in one's own eye and stuff (whether or not it's hoarding).

[iris lilies]

I wasn't able to finish the article because the ad wouldn't load on m iPad and caused the page to crash and reload.

but that's kind of how I feel about hoarders. In the early episodes, they talk a lot about the psychology of dealing with a hoarder and what the people see experiencing and how you have to approach them, but even then, they don't actually do much of that.

it's a little like my experience in teacher training "this is how children grow and develop and this is how they learn best. And then over here we have lesson plans, curriculum, classroom structure, assessment and school policy." - overlap? Minimal.

one thing that makes me want to scream at them is when they tell the hoarder "you don't have time to look at every little thing. Or we're never going to get this done" Yes, they do. That's where they need to start. Looking at every little thing. Making a decision about every gum wrapper until they can't stand it any more and they say "you can throw away the gum wrappers." Or they may have a clean house, but they won't be any better. And what they need more than a clean house is to learn how to throw away gum wrappers (symbol).

Or they say "you're going to have to trust us so we can help you." No, you are going to have to earn their trust before you can help them. Which may mean you spend your day making a neatly folded pile of dirty sweaters, so they can see all the dirty sweaters and choose twice as many as you think they could ever possibly need to wash and keep. It also means that if you promise to take the rest of the dirty sweaters to the laundramat and on to goodwill - you have to actually do that.

i don't think you should lie to mentally ill people unless someone's life is in danger and there is no other choice. We already have enough trouble with reality without you misrepresenting it.

I always appreciate your views from "inside" so to speak.

The thing that bugs me so so s much about hoarding and cleaning up hoarder's house is what I perceive as valuing things over time. Thats why I would have little patience in helping a hoarder because I simply will not lend my life energy, my most valuable resource--time--to sit while they fuss with every gum wrapper.

Its a real clash of values, time vs stuff, and its not just out and out hoarders who I clash with but anyone who doesn't respect my time, anyone who values cheap things over time. Perfect example: at a garden meeting someone asked for money to buy 8 plastic storage tubs at $9 each. Somene else who constantly values thngs way more than I do spoke up to say that is too much money, storage tubs could be purchased for $6-$7 at XXX store. C'mon, it is NOT worth that person'time to drive into,the city from her country place to buy a cheaper storage tub, and not even the kind she was asking for.

I suspect that the siren call of a "bargain" lurks in the hearts of many hoarders.

I watched one episode of Hoarders Season 1, prompted by the other post by boss mare. And I wondered, seeing the five young men standing in the hoarder's house all ready to "help" her, why the leader didnt tell hoarder to start sorting the gum wrappers last week so that piles of throwaways could be made before the strong young men showed up to haul things away.

As it was, they stood around, waiting waiting waiting while the careful examination of each tiny piece of trash took place.

What a waste.

[Ultralight]

one thing that makes me want to scream at them is when they tell the hoarder "you don't have time to look at every little thing. Or we're never going to get this done" Yes, they do. That's where they need to start. Looking at every little thing. Making a decision about every gum wrapper until they can't stand it any more and they say "you can throw away the gum wrappers." Or they may have a clean house, but they won't be any better. And what they need more than a clean house is to learn how to throw away gum wrappers (symbol).

Or they say "you're going to have to trust us so we can help you." No, you are going to have to earn their trust before you can help them. Which may mean you spend your day making a neatly folded pile of dirty sweaters, so they can see all the dirty sweaters and choose twice as many as you think they could ever possibly need to wash and keep. It also means that if you promise to take the rest of the dirty sweaters to the laundramat and on to goodwill - you have to actually do that.

Sooooo... tough questions.

What if a hoarder is old or sick and really does not have time? What if they have a full time job and a family to be responsive to?

The other concern is that it is just a really tough sell for anyone to put so much time into something they view as trivial (the gum wrappers and such). Gaining the trust of anyone -- especially someone who is profoundly mentally ill -- takes a lot of time and is often a moving target.

So like I said, it'd be tough to convince anyone to spend a massive amount of time and resources to first gain a hoarder's trust and then go through all the gum wrappers. And then... do all the ongoing maintenance.

Thoughts?

[Chicken lady]

The question isn't wether or not the mess is worth your time. It is not about the mess. It's not about the stuff vs. time. It is about the person. Yes, gum wrappers are trivial. I chose them because I'm pretty sure we can all agree on that. But is the person or your relationship with them trivial? Is this person worth your time? Because you know how if somebody gives you a thing, that thing is yours to use however you see fit? If you are truly willing to GIVE your time to helping the hoarder, you have to be willing to let them use that time in a way that will actually help them. Possibly you just talk and nothing gets cleaned!

As to what if the hoarder doesn't have time - what if a person is terminally ill? You make decisions based on their wishes and quality of life. Maybe it's better to let them live with their hoard and just hire a clean out crew after they die. Maybe there would be real value to them in being able to use their bedroom, maybe it is comforting to sort through their stuff with somebody. It's a very personal call.

and yes, it is sheer idiocy to bring a clean out crew when the person is clearly not ready to clean out. But it makes for good ratings - hence the questionable ethics of filming/watching.

[Ultralight]

The question isn't wether or not the mess is worth your time. It is not about the mess. It's not about the stuff vs. time. It is about the person. Yes, gum wrappers are trivial. I chose them because I'm pretty sure we can all agree on that. But is the person or your relationship with them trivial? Is this person worth your time? Because you know how if somebody gives you a thing, that thing is yours to use however you see fit? If you are truly willing to GIVE your time to helping the hoarder, you have to be willing to let them use that time in a way that will actually help them. Possibly you just talk and nothing gets cleaned!

I think that nearly everyone -- and I mean very nearly everyone -- would say "no." And deem the situation not worth their time almost no matter how much they care about the person.

And to me, this is the problem. If the hoarder will not clean up on their own and the people who care most about they will not stand there with them while they churn and/or clean then who will clean the place? How will the place get cleaned?

I am asking pragmatically, not rhetorically.

[iris lilies]

Chicken lady, your analogy about giving time regardless of how it is used is interesting. I'll hve to mull that over,but it is a good point.

To UL I have to say: the place will not get clean. It just wont. The mental illness is too big and resources of time are not available to help with that. So be it.