Another Tale of Financial Woe

[jp1]

lessisbest should chime in on this thread!

I think she'd tell him he needs to do more than get rid of the dog.

[jp1]

I think financial literacy has an important place, especially in areas like investing and tax planning.

For a majority of Americans probably the most important thing that they could learn from a financial planning perspective would be compound interest and the fact that it swings both ways. And maybe secondarily that when the fed keeps interest rates at zero that only means savings interest rates will be at zero, but debt interest rates will still be as high as they ever were.

[Ultralight]

I'm not saying being bad with money makes you a bad person overall. I am saying that I have limited sympathy for someone suffering from the predictable consequences of that particular character flaw. Spending other people's money on luxuries and not paying it back represents a character flaw in my mind, justify it however you like.

I would have sympathy for this schlub if he was just some workin' man who came from nothing and was just trying to make ends meet and someday get ahead.

But this guy seems like he did massively dumb stuff. Massively!

I grew up knowing only one financial lesson -- credit cards are bad news!

Everything else I had to learn on my own. Not learning financial smarts when you are a kid from your parents is just a massive setback in so many ways that is largely out of your control until you maybe wise up in time to teach yourself.

[Ultralight]

I think she'd tell him he needs to do more than get rid of the dog.

Probably... but I would tell him to give up so much other stupid crap and keep the dog if at all possible.

That is how I roll!

[catherine]

I'm not saying being bad with money makes you a bad person overall. I am saying that I have limited sympathy for someone suffering from the predictable consequences of that particular character flaw. Spending other people's money on luxuries and not paying it back represents a character flaw in my mind, justify it however you like.

I agree with you that willfully not repaying debt you sign up for is wrong. But we live in a world where you are expected to go into debt, and you are in fact constantly bombarded with messages that whatever you want is yours for the taking. Yes, we all have the ability to say no, but it's like taunting someone with cake and then criticizing them when they finds it hard to refuse.

I think religions that consider usury a sin might be on to something, as is Shakespeare: "Neither a borrower nor a lender be." It's not easy to accomplish that in our society, that's all.

Maybe I'll go back and read lessisbest's post.

[iris lilies]

I just spent the past weekend with old college friends. Our host lives in Richmond, so we went to Monticello. Of course it came up about Jefferson's enormous debt that he died with ($1M+ in today's dollars). His heirs had to sell off everything to pay it off, and even then it wasn't all paid off.

My friend asked the tour guide what contributed to the debt and it was a number of things--back then you could inherit debt, which Jefferson did, from his father; he had expensive passions like art and architecture, the tobacco industry went through a couple of depressions and his own land had to be converted to wheat because he practiced monoculture for so many years, raping the soil. He cosigned a 20k note for a friend who defaulted.

OTOH, his long-time friend/foe/co-signer of the Declaration of Independence/fellow deathbed buddy John Adams died in solvency, and from what i understand he was the frugal type.

Anyone want to argue the characters of Jefferson v Adams? Jefferson was a genius, but financial literacy obviously wasn't one of his core competencies. So is he a bad guy? Sometimes it's a combination of things that just blindsides us. We often collude with Fate to put us in these predicaments, but sh*t happens. Sometimes we learn from our karmic lessons and sometimes we lose.

Financial responsibility is ONE criteria I use to judge character, not the only one.Thomas Jefferson has several problems as a man and as a historical figure, but I will not dismiss him as a great man for our country due to these issues.

we are all a sum of our parts.

the Hamptons dwelling author made himself known to me for his financial problems, so of course thats what I will comment on, its all I know of him. Well, I did look up his books and he was published by an academic press so he likely didnt make much from those books. His contributions to scholarship would be important to some, I am indifferent.

Im sure he and the wife throw fascinating dinner parties, so there is that.

[Ultralight]

Maybe I'll go back and read lessisbest's post.

Be careful. You don't want to meet my fate as a "financial and relationship loser." hahaha

[LDAHL]

I would have sympathy for this schlub if he was just some workin' man who came from nothing and was just trying to make ends meet and someday get ahead.

But this guy seems like he did massively dumb stuff. Massively!

I grew up knowing only one financial lesson -- credit cards are bad news!

Everything else I had to learn on my own. Not learning financial smarts when you are a kid from your parents is just a massive setback in so many ways that is largely out of your control until you maybe wise up in time to teach yourself.

I can somewhat sympathize with him on the Eternal Dad Conundrum of wanting the best for your kids while at the same time teaching them by example that life is a matter of difficult choices. He seems to have come down on giving them all they "deserved" and damn the consequences. I'm not sure the benefits of degrees from Harvard and Emory outweigh the example of begging from your parents, stiffing the IRS, and generally consuming more than you can produce over a career to maintain your status.

[Ultralight]

I can somewhat sympathize with him on the Eternal Dad Conundrum of wanting the best for your kids while at the same time teaching them by example that life is a matter of difficult choices. He seems to have come down on giving them all they "deserved" and damn the consequences. I'm not sure the benefits of degrees from Harvard and Emory outweigh the example of begging from your parents, stiffing the IRS, and generally consuming more than you can produce over a career to maintain your status.

Wacky as it is, I largely agree with you here. haha

[jp1]

As the author himself points out, he's probably not a good example of the real struggles that many families have. It's hard to feel empathy for someone who earned the income he did, made the stupid decisions he did, and finds himself in his place.

But there are lots of other families who actually do deserve our empathy, but generally in our society, as Steve pointed out, only blame is forthcoming. The CFPB is a good first step but more needs to be done. After what we did to save the big banks I don't have much sympathy for the whines of "people take on debt, they should be responsible enough to pay it back."