Definition of privilege

[Mary B.]

I'm rather admiring the French who are saying NO to burkinis, and insisting that if you want to be French, you have to adapt to French culture.
...

No accommodation for race or religion (including Christianity - no crosses or other religious objects allowed in school.)

Lots of photos of French Christian nuns walking on beaches have appeared on my Facebook feed, complete with veils and mid-calf skirts. So some accommodation, anyway, since there so far have been no images of the police forcing them to disrobe.

[LDAHL]

I'm rather admiring the French who are saying NO to burkinis, and insisting that if you want to be French, you have to adapt to French culture.

In may sound oppressive to Americans, but it may help prevent the ghetto-ization of immigrants and, in the long run, create more equality for everyone.

No accommodation for race or religion (including Christianity - no crosses or other religious objects allowed in school.)

I don't think we could have that kind of homogeneity in the U.S., and it would probably be pretty ugly if we did (as well as unconstitutional.) But France does have a unique culture and language, and they want to keep it that way.

(I'm aware of the prejudice against Algerians there, and I'm not saying it's utopia - just a different way of dealing with "otherness.")

Why is it right for the French to enforce cultural conformity (in this case, beachwear) but not right for others?

[JaneV2.0]

So--no room for modesty on French beaches? I don't see anything democratic or fair about that.

[Zoe Girl]

If people want to dress a certain way that does not bother me. I grew up around Amish and that is pretty noticeable. Visiting Utah I get to see their unique style. And since I was a punk kid I believe in freedom of dressing yourself. However like free speech there is a certain level of responsibility you may need to take. I was followed in stores a lot and accused of cheating in school. If there is a reasonable cause to search someone wearing then they need to cooperate. Like free speech, if you say certain things in certain ways then you may be part of shouting fire in a theater and have responsibility for that.

[iris lilies]

Why is it right for the French to enforce cultural conformity (in this case, beachwear) but not right for others?

I agree, especially the idea of encourging less modesty. That seems silly.

[peggy]

I don't admire what the French are doing at all. This wasn't a place of business or school or shopping mall. It's a public beach for heavens sake. They may think they are 'freeing' these women from their restrictive religious doctrine, but they are being as oppressive as the religion.

All it really comes down to, in the end, is society/government/others telling women how to dress and/or behave.

OMG! Why is it ALWAYS the women who must bear the brunt of oppressive religion, government, and 'codes' of conduct. You want to talk privilege? How about the privilege of religion and governments/societies who think it's OK to force women to whatever doctrine they hold dear. In this country, some (see, I didn't name names) push this constantly with denying women's body autonomy, the most basic right EVERYONE should have.

[Alan]

All it really comes down to, in the end, is society/government/others telling women how to dress and/or behave.

Or ensuring there's no suicide bomb vest underneath, but no, that's probably not it.

[creaker]

I agree, especially the idea of encourging less modesty. That seems silly.

I thought the whole thing was pretty silly: "these women are being oppressed - so we're going decide what they can/can't wear on the beach". The hygienic argument was even more silly. Thankfully the French courts are stepping on these bans.

[creaker]

Or ensuring there's no suicide bomb vest underneath, but no, that's probably not it.

You can't hide much in a burkini. You can hide endless stuff in beach bags, ice chests, etc., but those weren't banned.

[bae]

So--no room for modesty on French beaches? I don't see anything democratic or fair about that.

I find it just as troubling to tell a person what she *can't* wear on a beach (burkini_ as to tell her what she *must* wear.

WTH is wrong with either a burkini or a bikini?

Is a wetsuit or dry suit OK, but somehow a burkini is an assault on culture?

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/08/26/eu...-court-ruling/

Frankly, sending an armed agent of the state to tell someone they need to strip off clothing to show more skin smells of sexual assault....