The Pancake Incident

[ApatheticNoMore]

I am definitely stumbling. My life, without any foods that taste good, has become largely joyless. My health coach is suggesting I have a couple of exceptions; essentially he thinks I should allow myself a few foods that I like.

the danger there is certain foods are hyper palatable, they are binge foods (and no I'm not all that super eating disordered or anything, but I'm not willpower of steel either, and we live in an environment of foods that are more hyper palatable than people have EVER faced in all of human history, it's not natural, and I know some foods I "can't eat just one"). A lot of times it's simple carb foods (cookies, chips, pizza, the usual suspects) but for me it's definitely some super yummy cheeses just by themselves (just cheese all by itself can be addictive for me). So I don't know, there are no easy answers in navigating a difficult food environment.

See I suspect it might not even be "foods that taste good" alone that one misses but the VERY ADDICTIVE PROCESS ITSELF. One misses the addictive process, the being overwhelmed by hyper palatable food, the overwhelming and overstimulating of one's senses, the surrender to it. Yea in the same way that a drug might overload the dopamine receptors etc.. One misses the hyper palatable process that is confused with foods that taste good.

Food should taste good, but taste good does not equal hyper-palatable, that's kind of addiction talking in my view. If one hates all green veggies no matter what maybe one is just a supertaster. But generally even veggies should taste good if they are prepared with fat (unless one is trying to follow some kind of weight loss diet that specifically prohibits this - ie low fat) and some spices etc. (maybe small amounts of meat for the fat). But they are seldom an example of hyper palatable. Yes it's possible to gain weight on food even if it's not the hyper palatable sort just it won't come about through out of control binging, but maybe slightly overeating daily or something.

[Ultralight]

the danger there is certain foods are hyper palatable, they are binge foods (and no I'm not all that super eating disordered or anything, but I'm not willpower of steel either, and we live in an environment of foods that are more hyper palatable than people have EVER faced in all of human history, it's not natural, and I know some foods I "can't eat just one"). A lot of times it's simple carb foods (cookies, chips, pizza, the usual suspects) but for me it's definitely some super yummy cheeses just by themselves (just cheese all by itself can be addictive for me). So I don't know, there are no easy answers in navigating a difficult food environment.

I agree with you. Some foods make me want to BINGE! This is why I have been eating only foods that have no real taste to me, like steamed veggies, roasted veggies, beans, chickens, and so forth. Though I do like fruit, especially berries. So I eat plenty of those and they do taste good.

See I suspect it might not even be "foods that taste good" alone that one misses but the VERY ADDICTIVE PROCESS ITSELF. One misses the addictive process, the being overwhelmed by hyper palatable food, the overwhelming and overstimulating of one's senses, the surrender to it. Yea in the same way that a drug might overload the dopamine receptors etc.. One misses the hyper palatable process that is confused with foods that taste good.

Oh yeah, I hate to admit that I have an addiction -- pizza and pasta, for instance. I am a junkie for those foods. I'll overdose too, if you give me the chance. Experiencing this and admitting it has made me more sympathetic in a sense to people addicted to drugs and alcohol.

Food should taste good, but taste good does not equal hyper-palatable, that's kind of addiction talking in my view. If one hates all green veggies no matter what maybe one is just a supertaster. But generally even veggies should taste good if they are prepared with fat (unless one is trying to follow some kind of weight loss diet that specifically prohibits this - ie low fat) and some spices etc. (maybe small amounts of meat for the fat). But they are seldom an example of hyper palatable. Yes it's possible to gain weight on food even if it's not the hyper palatable sort just it won't come about through out of control binging, but maybe slightly overeating daily or something.

For me, the idea of not eating fried fish in the spring is deeply depressing. The idea of not eating naan bread at an Indian restaurant ever again, that is deeply depressing. But the idea of not eating pizza or pasta, I feel okay about that. It is not thrilling, but it is not depressing. The way I expressed it to my health coach is like this: "If I can have Indian food with some naan that might be the like methadone that keeps me off the heroin."

And the thing about fried fish is that it is really seasonal -- it is something I usually only eat in the spring, and a few times in the autumn. So it is self-limiting in a sense.

So I am trying to decide if want to try this "methadone" method or if I want to keep trying to white knuckle it and stay totally clean (even though I have stumbled a few times and eaten naan, for instance).

I work out regularly now (with dumbbells and push ups) and have been doing so for months. I ride my bike. I don't eat desserts and have not for years and years. I don't drink soda pop of any kind and have not in years and years. So in those two senses, I am ahead of this game. But no-God help me -- life without fish fries or Indian food is nightmarish and devoid of joy.

[Tenngal]

I am aware.

The vast majority of my friends are women from the 30s to the 60s in age range. None of them has ever offered to hook me up. Though a few have offered to sleep with me "recreationally."

LOL!!!! And I thought this was the dream of most men.........I think I can honestly say that the happiest I've been was years ago when I was in a serious relationship and we both had our own places.....we could visit back and forth but always were able to retreat to our own nest.

[Teacher Terry]

I think occasionally eating the things you love is better then total denial. I get the fried fish thing too so I indulge once in a while.

[Ultralight]

Still struggling...

I was reflecting (again) on how I was groomed since birth -- maybe before -- to be a junk food junkie. My mom told me she ate rocky road ice creme almost daily when she was pregnant with me.

Then as a kid -- from as early as I can remember -- candy, ice creme, pizzas, buffets, "pigging out," soda pop, and various other bad foods and bad habits were totally normalized in my family and in my environment. They were rewarded with praise: "You ate 40 fried shrimp! Good boy!"
Or: "It has been a rough week, let's order some pizzas!"
Or: "I am feeling blue... so how about Hershey bar with almonds?"

Totally normalized for my entire life -- until I started learning about nutrition when I was about 23 or so. Since then it has been a struggle -- with a few big wins but many, many losses.

I have not eaten desserts -- things like cake or cookies in literally years, like a decade or more. Same for soda pop -- it has been ages since I had it.

I have struggled a bit with eschewing pork -- off it, then on it, then off it again.

Obviously pancakes with real maple syrup have been a long losing battle for me. Same scenario with pizza, despite it's rather one dimensional appeal.

Anyone else having struggles like this?
I really think this ties directly to simple living though because of diet's interplay with cooking at home, spending, advertising, etc.

[merince]

I am sorry you're going through this UA.

Reading this thread, it seems to me that depression is a major component of your struggle. Are you addressing that?

You are using addiction terms. Have you identified triggers? In your original post you mentioned you wouldn't eat pancakes like that if someone was watching. Can you honestly, truthfully control yourself, if for example, you ordered maple syrup pancakes at IHOP? Maybe this would be a way to occasionally indulge? Make it a special occasion and invite someone for a "treat".

[Tybee]

I agree about the depression, which can definitely change one's relationship to food. I know I am definitely an emotional eater. What I am seeking now is to eat things I like, and realize it's okay to want to eat and to eat things that I crave, that my body has a wisdom if I will just tune into it.
I can only achieve change through positive means; self-punishment is not healthy for me, nor self-punishing thoughts.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I think it's all a matter of degree, so do I struggle with it? More than I'd like, it depends on how strict a diet one is trying to follow and even if not at all to lose weight but say for health (say something like Mediterranean, Paleo, or just real foods, or even something like trying to eat at home).

It depends on how often one binges and even if one almost never ever binges (I seldom do) how often they go off whatever diet they are trying to be on (again even if this is just a fairly lose health maintaining diet). And yea there are always rather unrealistic images of how one should look as well (yea especially women).

And when I'm off after the free potato chips in the break room, eh I AM unhappy. I'm not eating those when I'm happy I can tell you that. But life itself IS a struggle. Sometimes immensely so.

If you can eat fish fries without binging have some fish fries, if you know you always tend to binge on them - have baked fish or something , sorry but can't say I recommend eating foods you know you will binge on.

[Tammy]

I've found that when I'm tempted to eat something that I shouldn't, if I imagine how my stomach will feel afterward (I have GERD that had no symptoms if I follow the diet) - then I no longer want the food that tempted me.

I can get a visceral memory of stomach discomfort and it totally changes my desires.

[Ultralight]

I am sorry you're going through this UA.

Thanks.

Reading this thread, it seems to me that depression is a major component of your struggle. Are you addressing that?

Yes, depression is an issue. I have been going to therapy for a few years. Not sure that it helps.... I also meditate daily, exercise, spend time in nature, etc. So I think I am doing most of the things the research shows to alleviate depression, minus the pills. I don't do pills.

You are using addiction terms. Have you identified triggers? In your original post you mentioned you wouldn't eat pancakes like that if someone was watching. Can you honestly, truthfully control yourself, if for example, you ordered maple syrup pancakes at IHOP? Maybe this would be a way to occasionally indulge? Make it a special occasion and invite someone for a "treat".

Triggers are usually loneliness or physical fatigue. At an IHOP, I could control myself, but mostly because I want the pancakes I make and I want real maple syrup. Usually, for me, a "special occasion" on a Wednesday is followed by another on Thursday and another on Friday and another on Saturday... There is always a reason to celebrate or to treat myself. This makes it very challenging.