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Thread: Rep and Dem indivisible groups

  1. #11
    Senior Member flowerseverywhere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    More likely for being in the country illegally.
    do you think being in the country illegally regardless of how you got here (i.e. Young dreamers) is enough to deport? This seems to be a matter of huge contention for people who have lived here for many years. I certainly don't know what the answer is.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowerseverywhere View Post
    The ones causing themoutrage on age on both sides are the minority. Labels are not doing any help. What about Americans
    For good or ill, history is made by active minorities. In an era of identity politics, I don't see how any amount of goodwill will eliminate "labels".

    I don't think you can pretend there is some actual solution on issues like Obamacare that will result in everyone being happy. For everyone receiving a benefit, there will be someone else getting the bill. As Thomas Sowell said, "There are no solutions. Only trade-offs".

    Referring to someone as a "law-abiding illegal immigrant" strikes me as a contradictrion in terms.

  3. #13
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowerseverywhere View Post
    do you think being in the country illegally regardless of how you got here (i.e. Young dreamers) is enough to deport? This seems to be a matter of huge contention for people who have lived here for many years. I certainly don't know what the answer is.
    If there are no consequences to illegal actions there is no justice. As a sovereign nation , we either need to enforce immigration law or make ourselves a sanctuary country open to any and all, however we may find that one of those options is unsustainable.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  4. #14
    Senior Member flowerseverywhere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    If there are no consequences to illegal actions there is no justice. As a sovereign nation , we either need to enforce immigration law or make ourselves a sanctuary country open to any and all, however we may find that one of those options is unsustainable.
    your and LDAHL's comments reflect what I see all over this country. I agree we have laws and enforcing them is something few of us can disagree with. I just wonder what these people are going to do that were brought here as children or who,have lived here without harassment for ten or twenty years. What will these people do when they are returned to a country they don't know. Although I am an atheist, I feel like asking "what would Jesus do" Suddenly enforcing laws after years and years of letting ndocumented people attend school, live in communities and so has a huge impact on lives. We need to enforce laws but these are real live human beings. Our lack of enforcing laws has a huge impact on these people.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowerseverywhere View Post
    your and LDAHL's comments reflect what I see all over this country. I agree we have laws and enforcing them is something few of us can disagree with. I just wonder what these people are going to do that were brought here as children or who,have lived here without harassment for ten or twenty years. What will these people do when they are returned to a country they don't know. Although I am an atheist, I feel like asking "what would Jesus do" Suddenly enforcing laws after years and years of letting ndocumented people attend school, live in communities and so has a huge impact on lives. We need to enforce laws but these are real live human beings. Our lack of enforcing laws has a huge impact on these people.
    There are a few significant differences between the Almighty and myself that preclude me from adopting the standard you suggest in anything but an aspirational mode.


    I don’t disagree that justice should be tempered with mercy; but that doesn’t extend to pretending that infiltrating our borders and illegally taking up residence doesn’t amount to breaking our laws. There may be cases where we choose to treat certain lawbreakers leniently for various reasons, but that detracts nothing from the fact that we need to recognize that they are in fact in violation of the law. When a president decides not to enforce the law for political reasons, or when a city styles itself as a “sanctuary” for feel-good purposes, it ultimately erodes the rule of law in favor of arbitrary power. And that erosion is ultimately more dangerous than any immigrant bogeymen Mr. Trump could imagine.

  6. #16
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    There are a few significant differences between the Almighty and myself that preclude me from adopting the standard you suggest in anything but an aspirational mode.


    I don’t disagree that justice should be tempered with mercy; but that doesn’t extend to pretending that infiltrating our borders and illegally taking up residence doesn’t amount to breaking our laws. There may be cases where we choose to treat certain lawbreakers leniently for various reasons, but that detracts nothing from the fact that we need to recognize that they are in fact in violation of the law. When a president decides not to enforce the law for political reasons, or when a city styles itself as a “sanctuary” for feel-good purposes, it ultimately erodes the rule of law in favor of arbitrary power. And that erosion is ultimately more dangerous than any immigrant bogeymen Mr. Trump could imagine.
    My city is now a "sanctuary city" for reproductive rights. Yes. This is an election year and our aldermen had to line up feel good, grandstanding legislation.

    This ordinance just passed, and it is inclear exactly what it means in some instances with the CTholic Chirch here in town.

    They are idiots.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post

    They are idiots.
    I'll bet they made some really stirring speeches though.

  8. #18
    Senior Member flowerseverywhere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    There are a few significant differences between the Almighty and myself that preclude me from adopting the standard you suggest in anything but an aspirational mode.


    I don’t disagree that justice should be tempered with mercy; but that doesn’t extend to pretending that infiltrating our borders and illegally taking up residence doesn’t amount to breaking our laws. There may be cases where we choose to treat certain lawbreakers leniently for various reasons, but that detracts nothing from the fact that we need to recognize that they are in fact in violation of the law. When a president decides not to enforce the law for political reasons, or when a city styles itself as a “sanctuary” for feel-good purposes, it ultimately erodes the rule of law in favor of arbitrary power. And that erosion is ultimately more dangerous than any immigrant bogeymen Mr. Trump could imagine.
    thanks for that explanation. It will make for a lot of short term difficulty. In these cases I can certainly see both sides.

    As as an aside I have a friend who is president of their HOA. When she took the job she was given the advice to not make exceptions to the rules because it opens a can of worms and everyone is unhappy. I guess that is what has happened here. People turning a blind eye and now dealing with the consequences. I guess when you break the law there should be an expectation someday you will have to pay the piper. I guess a lot of people didn't think it would happen after so long or someone would grant amnesty.

  9. #19
    Senior Member flowerseverywhere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    My city is now a "sanctuary city" for reproductive rights. Yes. This is an election year and our aldermen had to line up feel good, grandstanding legislation.

    This ordinance just passed, and it is inclear exactly what it means in some instances with the CTholic Chirch here in town.

    They are idiots.
    now that is interesting. Maybe they want to have a special abortion tax and raise revenue.

  10. #20
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowerseverywhere View Post
    now that is interesting. Maybe they want to have a special abortion tax and raise revenue.
    Oh, there is NO WAY they will be taxing abortion. Oh my, even posing that idea to them would make their heads explode.

    Some of the things this odd, ill conceived city law does is to forbid landlords from refusing to rent to abortion clinics. Because there are so many abortion clinics needing spaces around here. Not!

    The new law forbids discrimination in employement and renting to those usng birth control and to those whose have had an abortion.

    there must be something in the law about freedom of expression about all forms of reproduction because the Catholic
    Church is concerned they may not be able to require their employees not promote birth control and in their work,with children and etc.

    It is hard for me to explain what this law does because it is simply ridiculous.

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