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Thread: Papers, please.

  1. #11
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    As Bae points out, such incidents preceded Trump.
    I guess I see a difference between border checks that are actually near a border with another country and border checks at a border that is just open ocean and the people being checked couldn't possibly have come from the ocean they were getting off a plane that had just flown across the country. What's next? Border checks as people get off the subway at Times Square? Probably.

  2. #12
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    I guess I see a difference between border checks that are actually near a border with another country and border checks at a border that is just open ocean and the people being checked couldn't possibly have come from the ocean they were getting off a plane that had just flown across the country. What's next? Border checks as people get off the subway at Times Square? Probably.
    That sort of thing has been happening for some time. I believe most here consider Mother Jones to be a reputable source don't they? This from 2012: http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2011...systems-yearly

    "Not to worry: security isn't the only goal of VIPR. A recent VIPR operation/screening at a Tampa Greyhound bus station was conducted with US Border Patrol and ICE. "What we're looking for is threats to national security as well as immigration law violators," said Steve McDonald from US Border Patrol. An ICE representative said that they were also looking for smuggling, and Gary Milano from Homeland Security said that although that was the first time the Tampa bus depot had been screened, VIPR would be back again sometime in the future and was using the element of surprise as a deterrent to "the bad guys."
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  3. #13
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    I guess I see a difference between border checks that are actually near a border with another country and border checks at a border that is just open ocean and the people being checked couldn't possibly have come from the ocean they were getting off a plane that had just flown across the country. What's next? Border checks as people get off the subway at Times Square? Probably.
    I've been stopped on the *train* in Glacier National Park, and watched the agents go from car-to-car doing their questioning. They've pulled off people each time.

    I asked an agent WTF, and he told me that they didn't actually expect to catch anyone who'd snuck in from Canada through the Park's wilderness and gotten onto a train, but they were simply pulling off people who can come in elsewhere, who had then boarded the train in Seattle to get elsewhere, and that it was really really easy to reel them in off the train in the middle of nowhere.

    Multimodal transport and all.

  4. #14
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Another bunch of fun I have with our Border/immigration/customs folks....

    My county is made up entirely of islands, on the border. Our county seat is the next island over from mine. I have to go over there with some frequency for meetings of various county governmental bodies.

    I quite often, in my small boat, get stopped on the way, on the water, by at least one government agency for a "check". One day I completely missed a hearing of the County Planning Commission, which I was the Chair of at the time, because I got stopped independently by 3 different agencies on the water on the way over. Hilariously, the hearing was concerning the approval of some excessively complicated environmental protection legislation the State and the Federal government were requiring us to adopt... One of my fellow planning commissioners, who lives on one of the smaller islands, almost always got stopped by two different agencies on his way to our county seat.

    America, Land of the Free.

    (You can see perhaps now why I've been keeping an real estate offerings on Saltspring Island and Vancouver Island...)

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    I guess I see a difference between border checks that are actually near a border with another country and border checks at a border that is just open ocean and the people being checked couldn't possibly have come from the ocean they were getting off a plane that had just flown across the country. What's next? Border checks as people get off the subway at Times Square? Probably.
    It's called a police state. It won't be just borders, either - sounds like the feds are getting direction to crack down on "legal" marijuana as well.

  6. #16
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    I will be so happy when this administration is in our rear view mirror.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by creaker View Post
    It's called a police state. It won't be just borders, either - sounds like the feds are getting direction to crack down on "legal" marijuana as well.

    Oxymoron. State legal, but still federally illegal, and you give up rights if you do it.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToomuchStuff View Post
    Oxymoron. State legal, but still federally illegal, and you give up rights if you do it.
    Agreed - but it will be such a stupid waste of resources and effort.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Rogar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by creaker View Post
    Agreed - but it will be such a stupid waste of resources and effort.
    Here in Colorado that could be a big issue. I probably could not accurately estimate the relative economic impact, but it seems large to me. Maybe a couple of billion in retail sales per year and millions in tax revenues. And beyond that are the greenhouse and other supplies, warehouse sales or leasing, and probably a little bump in tourism. The newspaper even has reporters dedicated to writing about the business. I was having dinner with friends and it came up that probably everyone at least "knows someone who knows someone" in some aspect of the business and I think they all knew the risk. Making something that impairs judgement more accessible does not go without problems, but I think everyone has been surprised at how few they have been and far less than the problems with alcohol use and abuse.

    Spicer says it leads to opioid abuse, which is a throw back to the reefer madness war on drugs era and about as bogus as climate change denial. But throwing legal marijuana back to the black market and drug cartels that are also involved in hard drug distribution just might. It is no big secret that a, or the major player leading to opioid addiction is the misuse of prescription medications.

    A lot of people here will be watching this closely. It seems like a good example of something that has worked out pretty well here, but might not somewhere else, as in a state's rights.

  10. #20
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    Yes Colorado will be a center of this. I know people in the business and people who have benefited greatly by being able to use it medically easily. I was a little nervous, having my young adult kids, but honestly I agree it has been rolled out so smooth and so few issues that I wish other states would do this. Now if the federal gov't pushes it Colorado economy is in trouble, plus we can put a LOT more people in jail for the stupid small possession charges that target populations.

    I met people at a conference for collective impact that work in opoid addiction programs in rural Colorado, it is the opposite to them. Marijuana may have issues, I don't think a lifetime of it is a great idea and generally you lose brain cells, nothing like these drugs that people drop dead from, can't raise their kids, can't work.

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