White collar automation?

[razz]

It seems that many well-paying jobs are lost due to automation and lots more to come. I wonder how those in their 40's and beyond will cope as they are just going into their saving years for retirement. There has been some discussion about this topic before but this link has a list of the jobs most at risk and requiring adaptation to remain employable.

Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/auto...llar-1.3982466

"Experts say the technological upheaval that's rocked industrial manufacturing for decades is set for rapid expansion into white-collar roles — in fact, it's already begun in some sectors. The concern is that if people aren't prepared to adapt — and quickly — they could be left without work.

Sunil Johal, policy director at the Mowat Centre think-tank at the University of Toronto, says millions more Canadians — between 1.5 million and 7.5 million, many of them highly skilled workers — could face such a fate over the next decade because of rapid technological advances, including in artificial intelligence and robotics, and the potential for automating increasingly sophisticated tasks...

A pizzeria owned by a Canadian ex-pat in Silicon Valley provides a glimpse at how far and fast automation might go. Zume is a "co-bot" environment where robots Pepe, Jojo and Bruno help prepare the pizzas. Within five years, owner Alex Garden says the entire operation could be automated.

"If you called to place your order with us you would probably be speaking to our artificial intelligence phone operator, and you may even have a drone or a self-driving car delivering your pizza," Garden said....

Consider what's already happened at Goldman Sachs. In 2000, the investment bank had 600 cash equities traders — highly-skilled, high-income workers — on its floor. Today, it has two — backed by 200 software engineers.

[ToomuchStuff]

There has been a t shirt, that I believe ThinkGeek was the first place I saw it (probably 15 years ago), that is apt.

Go away, or I will replace you with a very small, shell script.
This has way more potential, then off shoring, or illegal immigrants, etc. especially with the total population.

[gimmethesimplelife]

It seems that many well-paying jobs are lost due to automation and lots more to come. I wonder how those in their 40's and beyond will cope as they are just going into their saving years for retirement. There has been some discussion about this topic before but this link has a list of the jobs most at risk and requiring adaptation to remain employable.

Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/auto...llar-1.3982466

"Experts say the technological upheaval that's rocked industrial manufacturing for decades is set for rapid expansion into white-collar roles — in fact, it's already begun in some sectors. The concern is that if people aren't prepared to adapt — and quickly — they could be left without work.

Sunil Johal, policy director at the Mowat Centre think-tank at the University of Toronto, says millions more Canadians — between 1.5 million and 7.5 million, many of them highly skilled workers — could face such a fate over the next decade because of rapid technological advances, including in artificial intelligence and robotics, and the potential for automating increasingly sophisticated tasks...

A pizzeria owned by a Canadian ex-pat in Silicon Valley provides a glimpse at how far and fast automation might go. Zume is a "co-bot" environment where robots Pepe, Jojo and Bruno help prepare the pizzas. Within five years, owner Alex Garden says the entire operation could be automated.

"If you called to place your order with us you would probably be speaking to our artificial intelligence phone operator, and you may even have a drone or a self-driving car delivering your pizza," Garden said....

Consider what's already happened at Goldman Sachs. In 2000, the investment bank had 600 cash equities traders — highly-skilled, high-income workers — on its floor. Today, it has two — backed by 200 software engineers.

I am personally of the opinion that more and more people are going to embrace early retirement and will leave for countries with a much lower cost of living on retirement permanent residency visas and just bail on the rat race as the deck is so stacked against average people now. Why continue on the hamster wheel when it's not that hard to get off the wheel and out of the workplace if you have been saving over the years? What's in it for you when you get right down to it? My take is that more and more people will reach the obvious conclusion and just give up the fight and flee to escape working and the deck that is stacked against them. Now for people that have not been saving and/or have been unable to save, I wish I had some answers.....maybe it would be cheaper for countries to subsidize such people in lower cost countries than to keep them on social welfare in the developed world? It wouldn't surprise me at all if in the future such "exile"schemes came to be. From a dollars and cents perspective this is not a radical idea but quite practical plus it would get those exiled out of the crushingly unrealistic expectations forced upon people in developed countries these days, perhaps even expanding life expectancies for those "exiled" due to having the basic human right to not deal with/flee such insane and unrealistic expectations.

Perhaps this is not all a bad thing when you get right down to it.....What working has become in the United States really is soul depleting and evil and vile for most people. I can't speak for other countries (other than Austria where it's not quite as soul depleting as in the US but things have slowly gotten worse for workers the past ten years) but in the US I believe the conservatives on this board would be stunned at how many would instantly jump at such a "buyout" aimed at reducing social welfare costs. And just think of the higher quality of life gained by those taking the "buyout" or "exile" or whatever you want to call it - just from not having to deal with the potential of economic terrorism entering your life at any time, completely unforeseen, via the American Health Care Industry. Such an idea truly would be win/win for so many people. Rob

[LDAHL]

I am personally of the opinion that more and more people are going to embrace early retirement and will leave for countries with a much lower cost of living on retirement permanent residency visas and just bail on the rat race as the deck is so stacked against average people now. Why continue on the hamster wheel when it's not that hard to get off the wheel and out of the workplace if you have been saving over the years? What's in it for you when you get right down to it? My take is that more and more people will reach the obvious conclusion and just give up the fight and flee to escape working and the deck that is stacked against them. Now for people that have not been saving and/or have been unable to save, I wish I had some answers.....maybe it would be cheaper for countries to subsidize such people in lower cost countries than to keep them on social welfare in the developed world? It wouldn't surprise me at all if in the future such "exile"schemes came to be. From a dollars and cents perspective this is not a radical idea but quite practical plus it would get those exiled out of the crushingly unrealistic expectations forced upon people in developed countries these days, perhaps even expanding life expectancies for those "exiled" due to having the basic human right to not deal with/flee such insane and unrealistic expectations.

Perhaps this is not all a bad thing when you get right down to it.....What working has become in the United States really is soul depleting and evil and vile for most people. I can't speak for other countries (other than Austria where it's not quite as soul depleting as in the US but things have slowly gotten worse for workers the past ten years) but in the US I believe the conservatives on this board would be stunned at how many would instantly jump at such a "buyout" aimed at reducing social welfare costs. And just think of the higher quality of life gained by those taking the "buyout" or "exile" or whatever you want to call it - just from not having to deal with the potential of economic terrorism entering your life at any time, completely unforeseen, via the American Health Care Industry. Such an idea truly would be win/win for so many people. Rob

They used to do that. It was called Colonialism. Let's say you got your wish, and the US taxpayers paid large numbers of our less competitive population to migrate to Third World countries. What would be in it for the recipient countries? They would be saddled with a new leisure class competing for housing and services, driving up prices and diluting the local culture with an entitlement mentality. I could easily see local populations resenting a program like this, perhaps violently.

[ToomuchStuff]

So Gimme is pushing for Civil War and Succession, or American Imperialism, all while complaining that he wants to move to another country and not doing it?
Am I the only one who hears this voice in my head?

[gimmethesimplelife]

So Gimme is pushing for Civil War and Succession, or American Imperialism, all while complaining that he wants to move to another country and not doing it?
Am I the only one who hears this voice in my head?

I'm not about civil war and no snark going your way, either, ok? I honestly don't understand how you could come up with this conclusion based on my posts? I am however all for California seceding from the United States - I believe this could be a good thing for both Californians and for the United States, too - and for all those who might be able to switch sides before everything is formalized. If you were a liberal given the current political and economic climate - where would you rather be? In Trump's America or in a new country that is liberal friendly from it's very start? I don't believe given my political beliefs of which I have been very vocal that it's hard to understand why I'd flee to California at the drop of a hat if it were to split off. It's just common sense for me to do so in my book. How could I let such a once in a lifetime chance pass me by if it materializes?

As to imperialism - this is not what I am about, either. I'm all about people getting out of the rat race if they so wish and not being victims of economic terrorism via the insanely overpriced American Health Care Industry. Given that there is likely to be less work in the future to go around for all of us due to multiple factors, especially automation, I believe it's only smart to lower the bill for social welfare to prevent revolution and utter chaos by offering citizens buyouts - a life without work somewhere cheaper in exchange for a monthly check that would stretch much further elsewhere than it would here. I can tell you that the 85006 would be a ghost town were this ever to happen - most people would flee without a second thought. There's really no real reason to work hard for most people these days in the sense that there is no getting ahead for most people the way things are set up now.....better to exit the nightmare and such would be good for America too via keeping social welfare costs down. I don't see why this is a negative thing - but then again I've lived in fear of America and all it stands for and will never really trust it so naturally I'm going to have a very cold bloodedly practical approach towards dealing with this country with no loyalty possible whatsoever. For me loyalty was lost the Summer of 1981.....a long story I will spare you'all.

To recap, no I don't want a civil war - though I would not be surprised if one materializes though I hope it doesn't. I'm all for California seceding - it would be the sixth largest economy in the world standing on it's own and it really doesn't need the US - the US needs California. Lots of leverage there and I hope California uses it at some point - plus the wonderful chance for those in California for whom liberalism doesn't work to flee to the United States and those for whom America doesn't work to start over in a new country, with the potential of minimal hassle in order to do so. And no, I don't believe in imperialism - just economic survival with no loyalty to any one country whatsoever. All the above to me is nothing other than common sense. YMMV, I get that, and no one says you have to agree with me. I won't judge you for waving the US flag around - please don't judge me for bailing for the chance for something that works better for me. Rob

[Alan]

I won't judge you for waving the US flag around - please don't judge me for bailing for the chance for something that works better for me. Rob

I don't think anyone judges you for your desire to live elsewhere, it has more to do with your desire for the rest of us to pay for your life of leisure in another country. That's just goofy.

[Alan]

I am however all for California seceding from the United States - I believe this could be a good thing for both Californians and for the United States, too - and for all those who might be able to switch sides before everything is formalized.

Here's someone who agrees with you. http://thefederalist.com/2017/03/02/...-secede-union/
A brief excerpt:

"Think of all the new social welfare entitlements an independent California could mandate for its residents. There would be free health care, free education including college, free child care, free family leave, unlimited welfare payments, and state-funded retirement for all. "

[LDAHL]

Society won't collapse due to automated jobs in various categories any more than it collapsed due to mechanized agriculture. People and markets will (sometimes painfully) adapt. I don't doubt your sincerity, but I don't see how your vision of "a life without work" can be realized from a practical standpoint. I don't think your buyout and export idea would have the slightest chance of being approved either by US taxpayers or the countries we would be sending our surplus population to. Nor do I think an independent California would be the haven you might think it would. They would have water and power issues, the possible loss of readily accessible US markets and the need to pay for a defense establishment, central banking system, etc. There probably wouldn't be all that much left to finance a large influx of benefit seekers.

Personally, I think the most likely route to a life without work is to earn oneself financial independence through saving and investing coupled with living simply.

[jp1]

Society won't collapse due to automated jobs in various categories any more than it collapsed due to mechanized agriculture. People and markets will (sometimes painfully) adapt. I don't doubt your sincerity, but I don't see how your vision of "a life without work" can be realized from a practical standpoint. I don't think your buyout and export idea would have the slightest chance of being approved either by US taxpayers or the countries we would be sending our surplus population to. Nor do I think an independent California would be the haven you might think it would. They would have water and power issues, the possible loss of readily accessible US markets and the need to pay for a defense establishment, central banking system, etc. There probably wouldn't be all that much left to finance a large influx of benefit seekers.

Personally, I think the most likely route to a life without work is to earn oneself financial independence through saving and investing coupled with living simply.

Your comparison to the agricultural revolution doesn't really fit, as far as I can tell. The agricultural revolution was a result of, and went hand in hand with, the industrial revolution, which created plenty of jobs to absorb the people who formerly worked on farms. I don't see anything happening now that will require droves of former white collar workers.