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Thread: White collar automation?

  1. #11
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    Society won't collapse due to automated jobs in various categories any more than it collapsed due to mechanized agriculture. People and markets will (sometimes painfully) adapt. I don't doubt your sincerity, but I don't see how your vision of "a life without work" can be realized from a practical standpoint. I don't think your buyout and export idea would have the slightest chance of being approved either by US taxpayers or the countries we would be sending our surplus population to. Nor do I think an independent California would be the haven you might think it would. They would have water and power issues, the possible loss of readily accessible US markets and the need to pay for a defense establishment, central banking system, etc. There probably wouldn't be all that much left to finance a large influx of benefit seekers.

    Personally, I think the most likely route to a life without work is to earn oneself financial independence through saving and investing coupled with living simply.

  2. #12
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    I think a far more likely scenario than the US govt subsidizing exiles with a monthly living stipend (and why should those of us who struggle to work pay for those who have moved away--not understanding that part of this equation) will be the US offering through "ACA" or something like it a euthanasia option for anyone over 65. I think this is where this is heading, unfortunately-- kind of like Soylant Green, and they will dress it up as "kind" option.

  3. #13
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    You don't remember your history classes very well. Succession leads to war. Division of the states by succession over values and belief's (which is exactly what your pushing), was the cause of the civil war. E Pluribus Unum (out of many, one); This is both states, as well as people. This is NOT Trumps America, anymore then it is Your America, this is simply America. (remember the whole melting pot thing?)
    As a liberal Democrat, you seem to have forgotten and reversed one of your most famous values expunged by a leader of this country, who there was great fear about, due to his religious beliefs: (would he lead, or follow the Pope instead)
    Where would I want to be, here. I think I have a much longer viewpoint then you. Healthcare and medicine as you think of it, is only a thing of the last hundred years. Before that, we could still be compared pretty well to Imhotep's prior to 1900. Medicine is both a practice as well as something in another famous document, the PURSUIT of happiness. (in this case, via money) Life, being the first part of that, is NOT the same as wellness. We even debate the life part, strongly, based on states/countries right(s) to kill, abortion, right to die/self terminate, etc. You exercise your liberty to complain. In other countries, you try to do that and the secret police may be coming for you. Instead of whining, I expect I would be closer to Bernie and trying to fix things from inside, being a leader instead of a complainer/moper/whiner. Personally, I think in the ways of medicine, we are still children.
    As to the Imperialism part, you should look to the British Empire. It basically collapsed back to its own country. They don't run/control the other countries, that they once did, due to push backs from its citizens, who saw the "imperialists" trying to control everything to their standards, while those who the "country belonged to" suffered. In India's case, it was a lot less violent, due to Gandhi, but it could have been someone else who would have formed a military dictatorship.
    You move our citizen's out into other countries and you get the type that loves that country as it is, as well as those that want to adapt things to how they think it should be (in this case, same as you here). Your saying you want your welfare, but just think it should be less expensive and by being in another country are asking for all over site removal of those who choose to work more/harder, to pay for it. There is and will be push back from both sides, where your going, and where you came from.
    Back to the UK, as it used to be a major center of the industrial revolution. Several things happened, from the great war, where the US became a much larger industrial country, to the destroying of the country side (of many European countries). Then you had industries that changes, same as now. The UK survived and adapted and so will the USA. It won't be the same as it is, anymore then we are the same as we were in the 1700's.
    You want to ex-patriot, look at others, such as Rich Hall. He ex-patrioted to the UK and supports himself over there. Others ex-patriot based on THEIR savings and retirements, their work, their sweat, etc. Not on the backs of others. You want socialized medicine, we have that in this country already. Join the military or become a member of congress.
    Go back and watch that video and keep repeating it. You want changes, YOU make changes. Don't like something, YOU change it. Don't keep complaining, and saying OTHERS should change to suit you.

    I have that song going through my head again:

    Gimme free S(censored)
    Gimme free (censored) mister
    Gimme free (censored) some more

    Gimme free (censored)
    Gimme free (censored) mister
    and hope I walk out that door!
    Last edited by ToomuchStuff; 3-4-17 at 3:54pm. Reason: Cleaning up a couple typo's.

  4. #14
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    I have been to Mexico, Central American countries, the Caribbean islands, etc and there is no way I would want to live in any of those places. The poverty is horrible. I know a couple that had a B & B on a Caribbean island and lived there for 8 years. Whenever they left the house they carried a gun. They had a huge heavy safe for the guests to put their valuable in. They would get broke into when no one was there. After 8 years they got sick of it and also they had to be flown out for serious health issues as the island could not handle them. I don't see large #'s of people wanting to leave the US. Most would miss their family/friends, etc. Also people that have left with limited means find that if they want to come home they can't afford too. They based their lifestyle on too low of a COL and don't have the income to support anything else. I knew someone that had to do a Go Fund Me page to get a plane ticket back from Thailand and then had no where to go once she arrived. Not a smart plan. As far as the woman with 15 kids I guess her stupid reasoning is that because they arrested her boyfriend that the government should support her kids. As a former SW she is well on her way to losing custody which may be a good thing.

  5. #15
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    I think all these dystopian movies and books of late are getting to people

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkytoe View Post
    I think all these dystopian movies and books of late are getting to people
    You may be right. We are among the most comfortable and secure people in history, but we see every stiff breeze as an existential threat.

  7. #17
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife View Post
    I am however all for California seceding from the United States - I believe this could be a good thing for both Californians and for the United States, too - and for all those who might be able to switch sides before everything is formalized.
    Here's someone who agrees with you. http://thefederalist.com/2017/03/02/...-secede-union/
    A brief excerpt:

    "Think of all the new social welfare entitlements an independent California could mandate for its residents. There would be free health care, free education including college, free child care, free family leave, unlimited welfare payments, and state-funded retirement for all. "
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  8. #18
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    When you decide to come back to this instead of taking the ball and going home (since we sent it back to your court), some other things you might consider....

    Worlds population, growth, verses food, water, power, and other resources. What happens to immigrants in times of war. Prejudices against immigrants in other countries (both illegal and legal, you know examples here, then UK has an example of Polish, etc). You seem to forget that tech crosses borders, so HUMAN's will adapt, as other countries will become automated as well or have lack of job and fighting for resources, while your trying to be leisure at others expenses.

  9. #19
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToomuchStuff View Post
    When you decide to come back to this instead of taking the ball and going home (since we sent it back to your court), some other things you might consider....

    Worlds population, growth, verses food, water, power, and other resources. What happens to immigrants in times of war. Prejudices against immigrants in other countries (both illegal and legal, you know examples here, then UK has an example of Polish, etc). You seem to forget that tech crosses borders, so HUMAN's will adapt, as other countries will become automated as well or have lack of job and fighting for resources, while your trying to be leisure at others expenses.
    What is amazing to me is that there are people here who don't seem to understand that I am not talking of a life of leisure per se - I'm talking about avoiding a collapse of this society in which in the future there will be many fewer jobs. To prevent revolution the government is going to have to do something and social welfare is already very expensive. Offshoring US citizens to lower cost locations - say a good place would be Columbia, which is overall much safer these days than in the 80's and wise first world folks these days are actually retiring in Medellin which was once a very Juarez-esque place of danger - would make whatever monies the US can pay out for social welfare go further. I am really only being cold bloodedly practical here - really, even more realistically conservative than a Republican in this stance. I just don't have the loyalty that seems to be expected from US passport holders but I'm incapable of such loyalty to any country.

    Moving beyond this last statement, I really have to ask - if you don't like this idea, fine. Then what do you bring to the table to solve the upcoming problem of mass automation of jobs? I see disparagement of my idea but no solutions being brought to the table as to this problem. No one says you have to like my solution. But what do you bring to the table instead in regards to this problem? I wait patiently as I send the ball back to the court as it were.

    This could actually be a very interesting discussion if focused upon solutions for the upcoming mass loss of jobs due to automation rather than dwelling on the politics involved with my solution (it is a solution, and to date I don't see anyone else offering a solution that has disparaged mine). Seriously....can anyone come up with a solution other than mine then? Here is a prime example of why I am a liberal - at least I bring a solution to the table. I don't see such very often coming from conservatives. You know that saying, "Man Up?" So often I want to scream at conservatives, "Solution Up!" I won't scream here though, lol, this is meant as civil discourse. So I'll just say, please, someone, offer an equally effective or even better solution than mine. Ball in other court. Rob

  10. #20
    Senior Member dmc's Avatar
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    The masses will have to learn to get by with less if they can't contribute. They may have to start doing some of the jobs the illegals are now doing. They are also going to have to stop breeding if they can't afford kids. I think we are a long way off before everything is automated.

    I thought we were all going to die soon from climate change regardless so what does it matter.

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