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Thread: And ACA dismantlement starts

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by creaker View Post
    That's a good question - is the tax credit for medical expenses including insurance? Or just for health insurance premiums?
    I'm not sure, it's one of the proposed changes still in flux that's floating around for the Obamacare "repeal."

  2. #62
    Senior Member flowerseverywhere's Avatar
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    I hope Trumpcare passes. Sometimes things have to hit rock bottom before people wake up. I know so many people who think that Obamacare is awful and the Republican bill will change everything. After seven years of a vow of repeal and replace let them do it. They were elected according to the rules in place across the board. So let them pass their bill. See if the CBO is partisan and Trump will fulfill his promise of better insurance with more people covered for a cheaper price.

    I know more people who are ecstatic with the recent comments about we don't want non white babies. I know people who don't care who is in the Oval Office as long as his skin is white. And people who go to church every Sunday and read the Bible who want every illegal person booted out and all refugees back where they belong. So let it happen.

    Instead of all this effort protesting work to elect people who care about the poor, refugees, and the hard working law abiding immigrants. Work for real immigration reform. And for people who understand how complicated health care is and will work to make it better.

    People wanted Trump and a republican house and senate. Give them what they ask for. In the meantime live as simply as possible to take care of yourself and save for your future because a future without social security and Medicare as we know it is bleak for most old people. And a present with more uninsured clogging the ER's will have a bad effect on all of us.

  3. #63
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    People wanted Trump and a republican house and senate. Give them what they ask for.
    only I think the actual facts show this is not so based on popular vote totals (for the Presidency OR things like the Senate). While we don't necessarily know what totals would be in a system that WAS based on the popular vote, we do know the system as it is doesn't work that way.

    It doesn't give people the party the majority votes for (much less the policies anyone actually wants which we can only speculate on most of the time, as there is no way that ever gets tabulated by voting - sometimes polls of such exist for what polls are worth).

    In the meantime live as simply as possible to take care of yourself and save for your future because a future without social security and Medicare as we know it is bleak for most old people.
    it would be one thing and perhaps a blessing and perhaps in some cases even possible if one only had to save for one's own future. But the old people with a bleak future may very well be one's own parents etc. and so one must first worry about that (concretely things like the Medicaid program for nursing home care). So really much wiser by far to take the old AA saying on changing the things one can, and accepting the things one can not change and KNOWING very much may be in reality things they can not change, than pretending one can somehow change one's own circumstances enough to effect miracles. The future may be a blessed near miss, the future may be very bad, much depends on things that can not be fully planned for or foreseen (whether and when people get sick, how health care costs go up by the decade etc. - yea restricting this conversation to health care here).

    Every man for himself assumes not just that we take care of ourselves (which has come easy enough) but that we ONLY take care of ourselves. But one can't necessarily do the latter, because in reality people take care of aged relatives but there are limits (that's why Medicaid eventually kicks in for old folks care), people take care of kids but there are limits (in some cases that's when Medicaid kicks in), people may take care of others as well (siblings, in-laws etc.). I'm not saying one *should* take every single one of them on mind you! But at any rate, one person can't take care of all those who may need it, even blood, it's much better if there are programs that help such people.
    If you want something to get done, ask a busy person. If you want them to have a nervous breakdown that is.

  4. #64
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    Part of me says that Flowers is right and people get what they deserve. The problem is that so will other people that don't deserve it. ANM is also right. I am the guardian for my friend with dementia and when we put her in a home last year we put her in one that we could afford on her ss and pension. Now her needs are much more so the cost is double. The $ is gone and I had to apply for Medicaid which she got. she has no family left so no other options but the home. It just boggles my mind how the Repubs like Ryan are smiling ear to ear when they are avoiding their voters and know that they are going to deeply hurt old people, poor people, etc. It's as if they are saying "Let them eat cake."

  5. #65
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teacher Terry View Post
    Part of me says that Flowers is right and people get what they deserve. The problem is that so will other people that don't deserve it. ANM is also right. I am the guardian for my friend with dementia and when we put her in a home last year we put her in one that we could afford on her ss and pension. Now her needs are much more so the cost is double. The $ is gone and I had to apply for Medicaid which she got. she has no family left so no other options but the home. It just boggles my mind how the Repubs like Ryan are smiling ear to ear when they are avoiding their voters and know that they are going to deeply hurt old people, poor people, etc. It's as if they are saying "Let them eat cake."
    I am not clear how your example illustrates loss of ACA for your friend.

    what I was always amazed by was and is the number of people who deliberately chose not to take the ACA health insurance their President assured them they could afford. They said they couldnt afford it. I guess they were lying. ..?

  6. #66
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    I am not clear how your example illustrates loss of ACA for your friend.

    what I was always amazed by was and is the number of people who deliberately chose not to take the ACA health insurance their President assured them they could afford. They said they couldnt afford it. I guess they were lying. ..?
    The subsidies do make health insurance MORE affordable but some choose not to take advantage. I think of my son, who makes about $40k as a server and he just recently chose to sign on. He's young and didn't sign up earlier because he would rather go out to eat once a week than pay for Obamacare. I finally talked him into it.

    Then I think of my BIL. I learned that the White House was soliciting Obamacare disaster stories, so I figured I'd troll the site and write this:

    I have been self-employed since before the ACA. My insurance premium for myself and my husband has only gone up $200 ($1359-1554)--a reasonable increase given the exponential cost of healthcare overall, as well as the increase in my age.

    Now, my BIL never could afford health insurance. He didn't work for an employer that offered it, and because he was relatively healthy, he didn't worry about it. But his family was concerned, and so we pressured him to sign up for Obamacare when it was available, which he did. He was able to get generous subsidies, based on his income.

    Just last month he wasn't feeling well, and so he went to the ER, where he was diagnosed with severe hypertension--223/120!! They kept him in for observation, and the EKG showed that he has an enlarged heart because of undetected hypertension. The fact that he had had no health insurance for years kept him from getting the preventative care that could have provided early intervention.

    If it weren't for Obamacare, he would now be facing extraordinary medical bills in addition to other financial struggles. Thanks to Obamacare, he can afford the medication he needs to keep him from a high risk of stroke or heart attack.

    That's my story.
    As we all have said repeatedly, Obamacare is far from perfect. But if Obamacare is a 4 on a 10-pt scale, the GOP alternative is -1. I read a thing on FB today: "Offering a poor person a tax credit is like offering a starving person a cookbook." The GOP plan is useless.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  7. #67
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    The thing I find remarkable is that the CBO's assessment is that Trumpcare will cause the loss of insurance to more people than the ACA added to the insurance rolls. In other words it would truly be better overall if they really did just completely repeal the ACA instead of passing this asinine bill that they are trying to rush through before people have a chance to read it. But hey, the people they'll be screwing (killing in some cases) are only republican voters, not republican donors, so it's all good. Right?

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    ...repeal the ACA instead of passing this asinine bill that they are trying to rush through before people have a chance to read it.
    Wonder where I have heard that before:

  9. #69
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    The thing I find remarkable is that the CBO's assessment is that Trumpcare will cause the loss of insurance to more people than the ACA added to the insurance rolls. In other words it would truly be better overall if they really did just completely repeal the ACA instead of passing this asinine bill that they are trying to rush through before people have a chance to read it.
    in part probably because the bill affects medicaid (and not just expanded medicaid either) and so it goes beyond just repealing the ENTIRE of the ACA. It cuts medicaid programs that existed before the ACA. I doubt it was medicaid expanded or not that people couldn't afford, but it has some downsides - in most cases you have to be really poor although sometimes if you are elderly it will pay for a nursing home and let you keep some assets, if collected at the wrong time (in your 50s for the most part) the government could claw back money from your estate if you have any.
    If you want something to get done, ask a busy person. If you want them to have a nervous breakdown that is.

  10. #70
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    I am not clear how your example illustrates loss of ACA for your friend.

    what I was always amazed by was and is the number of people who deliberately chose not to take the ACA health insurance their President assured them they could afford. They said they couldnt afford it. I guess they were lying. ..?
    Don't blame President Obama for our unaffordable health "care"/insurance, unless your point is he should have pushed for Medicare for all. Blame endlessly greedy insurers, Pharma, hospitals, etc. that keep pushing prices ever higher.

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