If they don't pass the new health care plan today.................

[JaneV2.0]

Only in the liberal areas. The rest of the country believes in liberty, self-determination and charity (to name just a few), which directly conflicts with the left's desire to impose their values on everyone else.

If these forums are a microcosm of the self-serving, self-righteous, mean-spirited values of the left, it's no wonder their party is in the governmental minority. It's an act of self defense.

Odd you should say that. I've lately thought that "state's rights" are worth revisiting. I have faith in the ability of my state and the other West Coast states to get it right; that's why the idea of secession has so many fans here.

The Right believes in liberty? That's rich, what with the old white men in charge crafting ever more draconian laws around voting and women's reproductive rights, among others.

[nswef]

The Right believes in liberty? That's rich, what with the old white men in charge crafting ever more draconian laws around voting and women's reproductive rights, among others.

+1 Jane I find it interesting that conservatives fuss and fume about Government overreach, Nanny State and yet want to tell me how to take care of my life.

[Alan]

The Right believes in liberty? That's rich, what with the old white men in charge crafting ever more draconian laws around voting and women's reproductive rights, among others.

The left has always confused the rights of the lives they create with their own. It's a quandary.

[jp1]

I'm going to guess that IL chose to ignore the second part because it was inflammatory. 21k not covered is not the same as 21k dead. Yes, people who are not covered generally die younger and more often from preventable causes, but it's not an absolute.

I agree that it was unfair for me to target Iris Lily. Iris, I apologize.

But my point and question in general are valid. Depending on what study you want to believe 21,000 additional dead people per year is a lowball number. And it really doesn't seem much of a stretch that 1 in 1,000 people who lose their insurance would die from treatable causes each year.

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politi...-gun-homicides

No matter how one chooses to slice it and dice it the reality is that people who support a bill that causes people to lose their insurance so that a few rich people can get tax cuts are making an economic decision that 21,000 lives per year aren't worth as much as more money in the pockets of those few rich people.

[early morning]

The left has always confused the rights of the lives they create with their own. It's a quandary.

It's quite clear, actually. Most of us on the left believe in self-determination, the ability to live as we wish without others telling us what we can and can't do, within the laws of our society. I am always confused by claims that the LEFT wants to infringe on the "rights of others" when in reality it's those particular "others" who wish to control the rest of us. It's preferable, from what I can see, for those on the right to support individual liberties ONLY as long as those liberties are ones they agree with. Own all the guns you want, just don't marry someone you love if you're gay. Pray in state supported institutions, but only as long as it's CHRISTIAN prayer. Don't have sex before marriage, but only if you're a woman. Don't discriminate against... Oh, never mind, that's freedom of whatever, discriminate away, as long as you're on the conservative side.

[creaker]

The left has always confused the rights of the lives they create with their own. It's a quandary.

Given defunding PP would cause likely cause net increase in abortions, plus however many deaths caused by lack of availability of affordable testing/treatment, I don't think life is what is being considered here.

[Chicken lady]

Perhaps this should be a new thread, but I've often wondered why the religious right doesn't take the walgreen's/cvs approach -

take all all that money they are throwing at candidates and build health clinics across the street from planned parenthood. Offer all the same services except never mention abortion (except to condemn it) plus maybe offer some of the social services for newborns - clothes, breastfeeding outreach, diapers.... they offer at their crisis pregnancy centers.

try to do the healthcare part better, and then at least they can say, look, we don't want to take away the only source of Pap smears or birth control these women have, we offer a clinic right across the street that does all these things, respectfully and cheaper too!

or maybe not cheaper. I confess that I now shop at cvs now and then and never comparison shop at walgreen's anymore because of the decision not to sell cigarettes.

keep expanding the clinics until pp us irrelevant except for abortion services. Then come back with you federal funding arguement. I'm sure liberal groups can band together to offer women emergency help with abortion the same way crisis pregnancy centers offer emergency help with unplanned, sometimes unwanted (adoption referrals), unaffordable babies.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Given defunding PP would cause likely cause net increase in abortions, plus however many deaths caused by lack of availability of affordable testing/treatment, I don't think life is what is being considered here.

regardless of abortion or not, funding it through PP, a private organization is kind of a strange way to go about it. Of course like basic public health things like vaccines, the government should provide completely free birth control readily available to everyone.

[early morning]

Of course like basic public health things like vaccines, the government should provide completely free birth control readily available to everyone.

+1

[Teacher Terry]

OUr Republican governor also did expanded Medicaid and thousands of people with no access to healthcare finally have it and many are children. When are we as a country going to stop believing that people with access to good healthcare are special little snowflakes and people without are lazy losers? Bad things happen to good, hardworking people all the time. We as a nation can't depend on charity to help the less fortunate. When much of Europe recognizes healthcare as a right why can't we?