Seriously, 45 has the intelligence of maybe a 12 year old-and not a very bright one

[creaker]

That's true, guilty as charged. I guess my broader point is that academia and media, which both skew liberal, consistently represent complex subjects in a way they feel most comfortable. Their output is then ingested by others who not only feel most comfortable with the result, but also feel justified by the implied authority of their source regardless of it's inability to stand up to reason. Complex social and political issues involve much more than race, gender or sexual preference, but who would know based upon individual commentary?

Agreed. Although for media I'd argue it's usually more based on what sells rather actual ideology. And a lot of what is reported is fringe and not mainstream. Not all muslims are terrorists. Not all gun owners are shooters. Actually only tiny, tiny portions are. But that's what makes the headlines and opinion columns and viewpoints do get skewed as a result.

[jp1]

Who are we even talking about here? The Trump primary voter with a median household income of 72k, ok maybe they can travel (that's a decent income some places, as long as it's not somewhere coastal probably). But maybe they do, well off voters voting for Trump were not necessarily voting cultural issues.

The stereotyped poor white Trump voter laid off from a coal mining job or unable to find anything but dead end jobs well into middle age? (72k is the median household income of a Trump primary voter but of course many may fall well below, and I'm not sure the general election breakdown). How does anyone expect them to travel? Do people not get being poor in America? It's not that way.

And people probably don't get this either: but there is no guarantee that low paid jobs even have ANY vacation time (even paid sick time sometimes :\). So use their non-existent vacation time to travel, and their non-existent wealth to buy plane tickets apparently? In one breath Trump voters are poor disgruntled working class whites whom the economy has left behind, and in another have enough money and leisure to be traveling the world. Which one is it? I live somewhere with income diversity so the idea that people are poor in America isn't totally alien to me. Of course I also know what an upper middle class lifestyle accouterments yearly foreign travel is, just as much as the fairly new shiny car in the parking lot that gets a weekly car wash to stay so shiny, but it's not where my sympathies lie.

---

I was actually not thinking about families taking annual luxury vacations to Paris or London or whatever, but rather, more like the trips a woman I used to know took. She would work 4 months of the year at an Alaskan fish cannery so that she could save up money to spend the rest of the year traveling all over the world, staying in hostels and such. Adding family commitments would probably make that a non-starter but plenty of young people could do it if they chose. I was never that extreme, but 25 years ago I was living in NYC, only earning 22,000/year and only got 2 weeks of vacation time, but I still managed to go lots of places and meet lots of people.

My point, though, wasn't really that people should go on vacation, but rather, if they met more people from other countries/cultures they would probably discover that they aren't as scary as the people on fox news and breitbart tell them they are. I read an article a while back where the author had looked at the election results by county and found that the counties that were the most strongly trump supporting were counties where the population is mostly white and where most people still live within 30 (or some other small number) miles from where they grew up. These results didn't seem particularly surprising given the xenophobic isolationist rhetoric trump used throughout the campaign.

[bae]

My point, though, wasn't really that people should go on vacation, but rather, if they met more people from other countries/cultures they would probably discover that they aren't as scary as the people on fox news and breitbart tell them they are.

When I was in London recently, a very multicultural city, the cab driver pointed out a "dangerous neighborhood" along the way to our flat, where "those people" live.... "Best to avoid."

My daughter and I were sort of saddened by this. So we walked down there the next day - it was a primarily Muslim neighborhood, full of happy people, great restaurants, and quite welcoming to random tourists dropping by. So I'm not sure what the cabbie was on about, but I'm still a bit sad. Anyways, we had a great lunch, and my daughter found some folks to speak Coptic with.

[befree]

creaker, that video of Trump slowed down IS hilarious...not only does he sound like a 3a.m. drunk, but his gestures seem like it,too. (wonder if we all would sound and look like that if video were slowed?)

[flowerseverywhere]

Who are we even talking about here? The Trump primary voter with a median household income of 72k, ok maybe they can travel (that's a decent income some places, as long as it's not somewhere coastal probably). But maybe they do, well off voters voting for Trump were not necessarily voting cultural issues.

The stereotyped poor white Trump voter laid off from a coal mining job or unable to find anything but dead end jobs well into middle age? (72k is the median household income of a Trump primary voter but of course many may fall well below, and I'm not sure the general election breakdown). How does anyone expect them to travel? Do people not get being poor in America? It's not that way.

And people probably don't get this either: but there is no guarantee that low paid jobs even have ANY vacation time (even paid sick time sometimes :\). So use their non-existent vacation time to travel, and their non-existent wealth to buy plane tickets apparently? In one breath Trump voters are poor disgruntled working class whites whom the economy has left behind, and in another have enough money and leisure to be traveling the world. Which one is it? I live somewhere with income diversity so the idea that people are poor in America isn't totally alien to me. Of course I also know what an upper middle class lifestyle accouterments yearly foreign travel is, just as much as the fairly new shiny car in the parking lot that gets a weekly car wash to stay so shiny, but it's not where my sympathies lie.

---

Workplace as diverse, in many ways my current workplace is as diverse as any I've ever worked for, and they make an effort to be so. But they DON'T hire H1Bs, probably would be less diverse in many ways if they did (because many Americans who weren't senior level wouldn't get a chance and that's a lot of people not getting a chance there. Tech "diversity" is usually white, asian, and indian males - not exactly all that representative of the broader population at all).

the trump voters are all of the above
repeal of the estate tax which kicks in at 5 million appeals to the very wealthy
repealing regulations and peeling back environmental regulations, business owners and developers
repealing climate and trade agreements, union workers and manufacturers
promising better healthcare, cheaper, covering more people everyone
promising to appoint a special prosecutor to lock her up, anti Clinton fans
pledges to halt refugees and immigration, some racists some fearful people and some who thought they were taking jobs and some people who want a "Christian" America.
pandering to evangelicals, by dangling the anti abortion carrot
promising more better paying jobs, lots of people
calling people names and being rude and mean also attracted some people who are bitter about not being super wealthy or are just mean people
and some lifelong republicans who may not have liked him but felt he was better than any democrat.


there is no stereotypical Trump or Hillary voter. Both of them alienated some lifelong democrats and republicans. but I think that is one of our biggest problems now. Trying to pigeonhole people who are diverse in every way who voted for each candidate. The candidate who promised to bring people together has fueled so much name calling, distrust and hate and Trump haters have taken the bait.

[jp1]

the trump voters are all of the above
repeal of the estate tax which kicks in at 5 million appeals to the very wealthy
repealing regulations and peeling back environmental regulations, business owners and developers
repealing climate and trade agreements, union workers and manufacturers
promising better healthcare, cheaper, covering more people everyone
promising to appoint a special prosecutor to lock her up, anti Clinton fans
pledges to halt refugees and immigration, some racists some fearful people and some who thought they were taking jobs and some people who want a "Christian" America.
pandering to evangelicals, by dangling the anti abortion carrot
promising more better paying jobs, lots of people
calling people names and being rude and mean also attracted some people who are bitter about not being super wealthy or are just mean people
and some lifelong republicans who may not have liked him but felt he was better than any democrat.


there is no stereotypical Trump or Hillary voter. Both of them alienated some lifelong democrats and republicans. but I think that is one of our biggest problems now. Trying to pigeonhole people who are diverse in every way who voted for each candidate. The candidate who promised to bring people together has fueled so much name calling, distrust and hate and Trump haters have taken the bait.

Maybe if the candidate who promised to bring people together had won the election that would be true. But as a trump hater I can assure you that it's entirely his actions that cause me to hate him. And as much as you and LDAHL would like to believe that there is no commonality among segments of our population there is. No not all trump voters are racist xenophobes. But a big enough chunk are for it to be noteworthy. And if being associated with them by virtue of having voted for the same clown, is upsetting, all I can say is bummer. You supported a candidate that appealed to racist xenophobes. Own the fact that you picked a candidate that actively went after those voters.

[dmc]

I felt the same way about Obama jp1, so I understand.

[flowerseverywhere]

Maybe if the candidate who promised to bring people together had won the election that would be true. But as a trump hater I can assure you that it's entirely his actions that cause me to hate him. And as much as you and LDAHL would like to believe that there is no commonality among segments of our population there is. No not all trump voters are racist xenophobes. But a big enough chunk are for it to be noteworthy. And if being associated with them by virtue of having voted for the same clown, is upsetting, all I can say is bummer. You supported a candidate that appealed to racist xenophobes. Own the fact that you picked a candidate that actively went after those voters.

I did did not vote for Trump and I hate him to. But I have attempted to ask people who supported him as well as read multiple news articles and even posts here and I don't believe there is a one size fits all. Someone even told me she voted for Trump because her son, a career military man. He had reached as far as he could go but she felt if Trump beefed up the military there would be a greater chance he would be promoted. Another man told me he was sick of refugees and illegals taking all the welfare and Medicaid money. And some just hated the idea of Hillary. If you read the comments on fax news you will find Jew and African American haters, but overwhelminglyly it is Muslims, illegal immigrants and refugees they really hate. So yes, there is a share of bigots and racists.

[LDAHL]

Maybe if the candidate who promised to bring people together had won the election that would be true. But as a trump hater I can assure you that it's entirely his actions that cause me to hate him. And as much as you and LDAHL would like to believe that there is no commonality among segments of our population there is. No not all trump voters are racist xenophobes. But a big enough chunk are for it to be noteworthy. And if being associated with them by virtue of having voted for the same clown, is upsetting, all I can say is bummer. You supported a candidate that appealed to racist xenophobes. Own the fact that you picked a candidate that actively went after those voters.

There may be "commonality" among certain populations. Racists, xenophobes and snobs seem to be spotting "noteworthy" traits all the time. That doesn't mean, however, that we should judge the content of a person's character in groups larger than one. That is what racists, xenophobes and snobs do.

I made the unusual (for me) decision to vote third party in the last election not because I despised the supporters of the two major party candidates: although they seemed to differ mainly in their choice of petty name-calling. I did it because I disliked the candidates.

[jp1]

I did did not vote for Trump and I hate him to. But I have attempted to ask people who supported him as well as read multiple news articles and even posts here and I don't believe there is a one size fits all. Someone even told me she voted for Trump because her son, a career military man. He had reached as far as he could go but she felt if Trump beefed up the military there would be a greater chance he would be promoted. Another man told me he was sick of refugees and illegals taking all the welfare and Medicaid money. And some just hated the idea of Hillary. If you read the comments on fax news you will find Jew and African American haters, but overwhelminglyly it is Muslims, illegal immigrants and refugees they really hate. So yes, there is a share of bigots and racists.

I'm sorry if my post made it seem like I thought you had voted for trump. I fell into lazy writing of using the generic "you" instead of "one".

And I agree that there is no "one size fits all" description of trump voters. But there is probably a five (or six or whatever number) sizes fits most description that is far less than a "62,979,636 sizes fits all".