A Different Way: Living Simply in a Complex World

[Ultralight]

I think being early to the simple living game really matters. Now, it is not the only thing that matters, but I think it profoundly matters.

I see people in this class and the other voluntary simplicity classes who are very late to the simplicity game.

I know people from other organizations who are interested very much in minimalism too.

But if they have already dumped a crap ton of money into expensive toys -- like sports cars -- or they have 3 kids by three baby-daddies or they have mountains of credit card debt they may never be able to live a truly simply life.

(Insert arguments about what "truly simply life" means here, then go back to the rest of the post).

So I am thinking of interjecting a few points into the next couple sessions of class about self-acceptance and reasonable expectations.

[Chicken lady]

My father has a history of dumping the crap ton of expensive toys at a significant loss when the upkeep becomes too much and they no longer bring him joy (drives my mom nuts) so that isn't an insurmountable obstacle.

i'd advocate against dumping your kids though.

[Williamsmith]

Warning: Harsh Criticism

The concept of Living simply is mostly a by product of expanded leisure time for our society. It's not primarily driven by people's feelings that they are overwhelmed by the complexity of their relationship to other people and tangible things. Plenty of people live a simple life out of necessity and never dwell on the "complexity" of simple living.

I don't think simple livers can be evangelized. Therefore, I find the study group itself to be oxymoronic. No disrespect to the OP but perhaps leadership of a class like this is more about the leaders need for confirmation than the participants need for enlightenment.

Now, if this class is simply for social entertainment......as say a substitute for church or going to the movies....well that's hunky dory. Carry on. And that would explain the high percentage of female participants. Men are not easily persuaded that sharing ones feelings or thoughts with others is productive in a competitive sense. Men are not as prone to "self improvement" as women.

[Chicken lady]

Actually, I think simple livers can be "evangelized" or perhaps "enabled".

there are a lot of people who look at their lives and think "this isn't working" but don't know what to do about it. It can be very hard to get out of your frame of reference. If you have not been exposed to other frames of reference, it is even harder.

example - my children were homeschooled. When we first started homeschooling, many friends and family said something along the lines of "but you have to send them to school!" To which I usually responded "why?"

simply having a group of people who respond to "I hate (x) but I have to." With "why?" Can be a huge thing.

[Tybee]

I can see what you are saying, Williamsmith, but I do think that if one is trying to live a simpler, more fulfilling life today, that one does have to follow countercultural ideas. Like don't get a mortgage if you possibly can--see the work of Rob Roy, Mortgage Free! or follow someone like Dave Ramsey or Mary Hunt to learn why it's a good idea to avoid student loan debt.

The times when I have had to simplify because I didn't have any money at all, and had kids to feed, were incredibly stressful and complicated. So were the lives of people I got to know when I was working my survival job at IKEA-- people were going bankrupt, getting divorced to avoid partner debt, working two and three jobs, losing their homes, getting cars repossessed-- so I don't accept that everyone who is living lives at a lower income level is just leading simpler lives. I know there is the distinction between voluntary and involuntary simplicity but it goes a lot deeper than that.

I started reading the Nearings and YMOYL and Janet Lehrs and Dave Ramsey and everyone I could get my hands on who had confronted some of the same problems and found a better way. So like Chicken Lady, I disagree about the role model concept-- these folks helped me think my way out of being broke.

Maybe the OP's group can help people to do that? So I think it's a neat idea. ..

[Teacher Terry]

Having 3 kids is much different then debt or toys. Lumping them in together does not make sense. Maybe they wanted that many kids.

[Ultralight]

Having 3 kids is much different then debt or toys. Lumping them in together does not make sense. Maybe they wanted that many kids.

Maybe they wanted that many kids. Then later they realized they didn't. Fathers have said this to me: "I wish I did not have kids."

Mothers have said this to me: "Maybe if I could go back in time I would have ended the pregnancy"

Not all obviously, but a few have.

The NWEI is also about environmentalism. So a person who has a bunch of kids is probably never going to bring their ecological footprint down to a sustainable level simply because their footprint was made ENORMOUS by having a bunch of kids.

And I actually think that beyond one kid, maybe two, simple living becomes virtually impossible at the family level. If one member of the family, let us say the mom, wants to live more simply she can do a Project 333 on her wardrobe, donate stuff from the hobbies she does not do anymore, etc. But ultimately, if she has 3+ kids then her life will probably never be simple, except maybe after launching the kids and then retirement.

[Ultralight]

Warning: Harsh Criticism

The concept of Living simply is mostly a by product of expanded leisure time for our society. It's not primarily driven by people's feelings that they are overwhelmed by the complexity of their relationship to other people and tangible things. Plenty of people live a simple life out of necessity and never dwell on the "complexity" of simple living.

I don't think simple livers can be evangelized. Therefore, I find the study group itself to be oxymoronic. No disrespect to the OP but perhaps leadership of a class like this is more about the leaders need for confirmation than the participants need for enlightenment.

Now, if this class is simply for social entertainment......as say a substitute for church or going to the movies....well that's hunky dory. Carry on. And that would explain the high percentage of female participants. Men are not easily persuaded that sharing ones feelings or thoughts with others is productive in a competitive sense. Men are not as prone to "self improvement" as women.

I often wonder if deliberate, voluntary simplicity requires a certain level of intellectual capacity that the vast majority of the population does not have.

[Chicken lady]

I some ways, my life was simpler when my house had three kids in it.

[Teacher Terry]

When I was raising my kids many families had 3 or more. YOu make your life complicated by the activities, etc that you decide to pursue not by the number of kids. Also if people are sorry perhaps they did not think through the decision very well or now don't like the sacrifices required or are disappointed in the outcomes. Kids don't come with a money back guarantee. My 3 kids have decided not to have kids and I am fine with that. My 2 step-sons want to have a family someday. I hate it when people start getting bashed for having kids or more then 2.