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Thread: Young People and Capitalism

  1. #11
    Senior Member Rogar's Avatar
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    I am partially disconnected to our current education system, but have a long held belief that a solid economics and personal finance course should be a mandatory part of it. There is a possibility that capitalism among the younger generations is not as such, but is associated with a larger group of core theory or political or social group. I wonder how the poll results would change if the word capitalism were replaced by free market economy.

  2. #12
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    I saw a poll today claiming that a near-majority of young Americans disapproved of capitalism. Leaving aside for the moment the design of the poll or the degree to which young people understand what “capitalism” means, I found that troubling. It made me feel like something of a dinosaur, comparing my view of the world to theirs.

    I approve whole-heartedly of capitalism (recognizing its imperfections) both in theory and personal practice. The world works best when people compete, even if I sometimes lose.

    I’m more suspicious of what government can do to me than I am confident in what government might do for me. I’m more grateful for what I have than I am resentful of what other people haven’t given me.

    I feel buffeted by large impersonal forces, but not necessarily helpless.

    I think good people can have bad ideas. That doesn’t make them my enemies.
    I wasn't going to enter this discussion because my thoughts would be open to widespread criticism and I don't have the energy or the ammunition to address those criticisms. But what the heck--

    I don't disapprove of capitalism but "capitalism" is a broad term. I disapprove of what Pope Francis calls "unfettered capitalism." Because of what you rightly point out--competition being the core of capitalism--there are so many inherent opportunities for exploitation and abuse. By its very nature a company has to stay loyal to its shareholders over and above the general welfare. Look at tobacco companies that knew they were killing people. Look at Monsanto that needed a place to use its chemicals that were used in warfare so they put them in food. Look at the abuse of workers in countries where there are no child labor laws or unions--saving a few pennies is more important than the health of the workers.

    I really feel that our love affair with capitalism is a case of Plato's Cave. We are SO brainwashed that capitalism is the ONLY way and the BEST way that we don't even question it. I don't mind choosing capitalism if it's approached with an open mind after fully exploring all the options, but the fact that we were born and bred into it, and were taught that ALL OTHER OPTIONS were BAD (i.e., Communism) tells me that a better option may exist but we're too content to sit in our cave.

    I also challenge the that humans are hard-wired for competition over cooperation. I think that may be a myth fostered by capitalism. If you think of the family as a microcosm of society there are times when members of a family compete, but a family does MUCH better when it cooperates with each other. In the natural world you see animal species cooperating with each other mostly.

    Unlike you, I'm more suspicious of what our corporatocracy (which is what we've become essentially) can do to me than I am confident in what that corporatocracy might do for me.

    Just because I feel we can do better doesn't mean I'm not grateful. It doesn't mean I resent others. Let's not get into that argument again. Choosing something over capitalism, or for restraints on capitalism, is all about making things BETTER for ALL. When we're talking about political systems, can we keep socialist cartoon stereotypes out of it? Let's just talk about the merits of different economic/political systems.

    If I have criticisms about capitalism, that doesn't make me helpless. That being said, I believe heartily in our interdependence on each other.


    ETA: Just for one example of an alternative to capitalism, here's an article pulled from--not The Guardian or HuffPo--but the American Conservative. http://www.theamericanconservative.c...is-the-future/
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  3. #13
    Senior Member Ultralight's Avatar
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    I really wonder if the US is just a hopelessly divided nation. Left vs. Right.

    Each side has hits nutjobs (Trumpkins on the right; SJWs on the left).

  4. #14
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultralight View Post
    I really wonder if the US is just a hopelessly divided nation. Left vs. Right.

    Each side has hits nutjobs (Trumpkins on the right; SJWs on the left).
    Funny, I was actually thinking the same thing, just yesterday. After watching both sides react to Trump pulling out of the Paris Climate Accord, I actually wondered if we should have actually gone to war to keep the country together in the 19th century. We're like two completely different cultures. Confirms the importance of state's rights to a certain extent.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Ultralight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    Funny, I was actually thinking the same thing, just yesterday. After watching both sides react to Trump pulling out of the Paris Climate Accord, I actually wondered if we should have actually gone to war to keep the country together in the 19th century. We're like two completely cultures. Confirms the importance of state's rights to a certain extent.
    Warring over slavery is worth it.

    But I think it might be time to divorce. Though this will never happen or even be considered by anyone with any political stroke whatsoever.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Rogar's Avatar
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    I agree on left vs. right and how various concepts or ideologies have been politicized. Capitalism has encouraged entrepreneurship and competition which has given us many things that we enjoy every day at affordable prices, but it also needs regulation in the form of anti trust, child labor, environmental protections, and so on. But it seems like there is a larger division between conservatism and liberalism where on one hand the government is allowed to control many things and the other hand business has a heavier hand in the balance of controls. Neither works perfectly, so we have divisions that associate "capitalism" with conservationism and socialism is tagged with liberals. There is a good balance in the middle but we are so divided that compromise is hard to reach.

  7. #17
    Williamsmith
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    "Capitalism" does not exist in the United States. One cannot refer to the system we employ here as "Capitalism" and denounce it as a failure. A Central Bank is not part of capitalism. We have no savings. Our contracts are mostly non voluntary. Regulations, price and wage controls, subsidies and privileged contracts based on military or overseas interventionism or imperialism......these are not integral parts of Capitalism. The federal government usurping local and state rights to govern.....not capitalistic. Don't examine what we have here and now and deduce that capitalism has failed.

    To be sure.....those who would like to have more control will attack capitalism but this is a charade. True free- market capitalism just simply has nothing to do with the politically connected economy you are a part of today. A national bankruptcy, lower standards of living and the loss of freedoms for us all will not be on account of capitalism......it will be because of a failure to hold true to the hallmark traits of true free market capitalism.......which evaporated a long time ago here in the USA.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultralight View Post
    Warring over slavery is worth it.

    But I think it might be time to divorce. Though this will never happen or even be considered by anyone with any political stroke whatsoever.
    That war was over economics and being told what one could or had to do (states rights verses federal rights). Forced slavery was outlawed, but don't think that we don't still have voluntary slavery. We do with debt.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToomuchStuff View Post
    That war was over economics and being told what one could or had to do (states rights verses federal rights). Forced slavery was outlawed, but don't think that we don't still have voluntary slavery. We do with debt.
    very true. . .

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultralight View Post
    Warring over slavery is worth it.

    But I think it might be time to divorce. Though this will never happen or even be considered by anyone with any political stroke whatsoever.
    I don't see it. I don't think the population as a whole is as divided and mutually antagonistic as many professional and amateur rabble-rousers would have us think. There's plenty of diversity of opinion over common goals, even in certain Arizona postal codes. We're rude and argumentative, but we aren't Yogoslavia.

    I do think, as IL points out, that the anti-capitalists could well win by outliving me and my antique ideas.

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