Human Rights Bonanza! California's Senate just passed Single Payer!!!!

[iris lilies]

Except that Cali isn't paying anything, the citizens will pay for state run healthcare along with all the problems such as waste, abuse, rationing and the reality of wealth fleeing the state for greener pastures.
I'm as much an idealist as anyone but I think it must be tempered with reality. Unicorns are extinct and rainbows are rare.

Downer!

Why wouldnt Cali citizens wish to pay for everyone's health care? What could possibly go wrong? Dont give me none of that downer finances talk, now. Dont bring me down.

[JaneV2.0]

Downer!

Why wouldnt Cali citizens wish to pay for everyone's health care? What could possibly go wrong? Dont give me none of that downer finances talk, now. Dont bring me down.

How do they do it in all the civilized countries in the world? As someone pointed out, when you look at the cost of insurance, it's clear the public sector could do it much more cheaply.

[gimmethesimplelife]

How do they do it in all the civilized countries in the world? As someone pointed out, when you look at the cost of insurance, it's clear the public sector could do it much more cheaply.

Jane, Thank You for your reasonable post here. I have the same question for all conservatives here - how does every other country in the developed world manage to pull this off for their citizens, and why do Americans believe they are not worth human rights to this level? I knew differently at the age of 8 for crying out loud.....no one had to tell me anything, I figured this one out for myself at a very young age. It did not take intelligence, just common sense and the ability to think for myself and to not care what others thought of me when I knew I was on to common sense. Rob

[Alan]

Jane, Thank You for your reasonable post here. I have the same question for all conservatives here - how does every other country in the developed world manage to pull this off for their citizens, and why do Americans believe they are not worth human rights to this level? I knew differently at the age of 8 for crying out loud.....no one had to tell me anything, I figured this one out for myself at a very young age. It did not take intelligence, just common sense and the ability to think for myself and to not care what others thought of me when I knew I was on to common sense. Rob

Whatever sense tells you that you have a right to other's assets, educational product and skills is not necessarily common. But then again, what does an 8 year old know?

It would be more accurate to say you prefer to vote yourself an entitlement paid for by your neighbors. That's what those other countries have done.

[JaneV2.0]

It's called a risk pool. Most countries have them. But we live here in DogEatDogistan, where we're supposed to fend for ourselves or die trying.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Whatever sense tells you that you have a right to other's assets, educational product and skills is not necessarily common. But then again, what does an 8 year old know?

It would be more accurate to say you prefer to vote yourself an entitlement paid for by your neighbors. That's what those other countries have done.

I see it very differently - I see it as everyone pitching in for the good of the collective - this is why the concept of socialized medicine so fits me and works so well for me. Now, Alan, seriously, after sparring with me (mostly good naturedly, I'll give you that right here and now) for some time, can you at least see why the United States is not a good fit for me, with my concern for the collective and the collective good as I have? I don't mind paying high taxes so that someone else - the next Rob in the 85006 for example, let's call him Javier (I've always liked this name) can have access to necessary health care as I did this past December when I had a 3.5 inches in circumference liver abscess.....I'm willing to pay more so that Javier can get well and recover and hopefully continue to contribute something to the collective.

You know something though? I really wonder if this is a straight vs. gay thing? Seriously! And I'm the one who brought this up, ok, not you, let me state that here and now. I state this only because I really do believe straight men are taught (and buy into) the concept of rugged self sufficiency in this society (the only society in the developed world where straight men are abused this way, btw, and I DO have sympathy for this abuse, I truly do, and I don't believe it's all men causing this abuse, either, ladies) whereas gay men like myself are afforded a luxury most straight men don't have access to (and I feel for straight men here, I truly do)....that being concern for the collective and the collective good as opposed to rugged self sufficiency. It makes me very glad to be gay - way beyond sexuality if anyone can grasp this - that I am worth the luxury of being concerned for the collective good as a gay man. Oddly enough, if any of you were to meet me (and I still feel bad as I was going to meet some of you in Phoenix at the Art Museum on their free entrance day but bailed due to illness) I am not particularly masculine but I am also no man into the gay scene - in other words, I can't be easily pigeonholed as I don't fit into the gay world much better than I do the straight world.

I bring all this up as I truly believe that straight men are raised to believe in going it alone at all costs (at least in this society) and gay men are afforded a break from (what I consider anyway) this abusive BS. I may bitch an awful lot about my lot in life, I'll give you'all that right here and now, but I have to say Alan, with no snark whatsoever intended, Thank You.....for helping me realize here that I truly have something to be grateful here that I never fully realized before - the luxury of being allowed to be concerned for the collective good of society - and being worth this luxury due to the fact that I'm gay. What a perk!!! I really mean this. What a perk. Whoever is responsible for my being worth this luxury - many, many, many Thanks and much gratitude, and no snark whatsoever is meant here. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

It's called a risk pool. Most countries have them. But we live here in DogEatDogistan, where we're supposed to fend for ourselves or die trying.

I'm so grateful that I started seeing this through this line of thinking the Summer I was 8 years old - 1975 - when I discovered that the laws in America are applied based on skin color and social class. I'm so glad I never bought into this thinking!!! Something to be proud of and I will say that my family in Austria has my picture up on their family wall due to this fact alone - that I chose at an early age to reject this line of thinking and kicked it to the curb for the abusive BS it truly is. Rob

[jp1]

It's called a risk pool. Most countries have them.

Exactly. Everyone uses a fair amount of healthcare over the course of their lifetime. We already cover people when they have the most expenses, in their old age. It really doesn't seem like much of a stretch to increase the Medicare tax sufficiently to cover everyone from cradle to grave. If we wanted to be more "fair" for Alan's apparent definition of fair maybe we should stop giving medicare to people who didn't work a sufficient amount during their working lives. After all, why should society have provided my mother medicare since she stopped working at 25 to become a housewife and stay at home mother and never reentered the workforce or paid another dime in medicare withholding.

[iris lilies]

here is the proof
https://www.cms.gov/Research-Statist...Highlights.pdf

i am 63. Many of my friends have had costly joint replacements, several have had strokes and cancers and many many have various skin cancers. The majority are not due to lifestyle but rather shit happens. Add to the lifestyle components of loss of activity and social contacts many seniors have is not helpful for circulation, mental acuity and just plain old wearing out and nursing home costs and seniors are a costly group indeed.

I heard on the radio that the U.K.'s Teresa May and her party were proposing to take the estates of Alzheimer's patients because that populatin is bankrupting the NHS. Funny, thats what we do HERE. But it didnt fly, the citizenry there nixed it.

Teresa May, just another downer. Just print the money to pay for everything, thats what everyone else (cough cough California) does!

[dmc]

How much are you willing to pay? I pay $18,000 per year for my wife and I. This is after tax money. I haven't had a job in 10 years. I'd be happy if you would just pay half of mine.

it always seems the ones willing to pay high taxes, Arndt he ones actually paying them.