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Thread: The bottom fell out (part II).

  1. #91
    Senior Member Ultralight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tybee View Post
    I think the fact that you have deemed her "dishonest" means that any relationship is doomed from the start. She is already apologizing to you--this is not a healthy start to a relationship between equals; let her go, as this is a very negative dynamic for both of you.
    A person, through diligent work, can make up for a lie and thereafter build someone's trust. But it takes time and work.
    Also: There is nothing wrong with apologizing. Apologizing for something you have done wrong and making amends is a sign of good character.

    A long time female friend actually told me this once, and perhaps it is related to the reason you think this woman's lie to me does not warrant an apology.
    She said: "Jake, I bet one of the reasons you are single is that you admit when you are wrong. Women don't like that in a man. They say they do, but they actually don't. You should reconsider this practice."

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicken lady View Post
    Remember the part where you said everybody in your dating pool is defective? You are extremely demanding. And I don't think it's necessarily that you hold others to a higher standard than you hold yourself, you just seem to find faults unacceptable. You should probably get one of the t- shirts that says "the more people I meet, the more I like my dog." Harlan isn't perfect, but that's ok with you, because Harlan is a dog. But people are also imperfect.
    Remember when I did not say that everyone in the dating pool is defective? I actually said they were either defective or quirky.
    I don't find all faults unacceptable, but some I do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chicken lady View Post
    but seriously, I think you probably need to do some work on yourself before you go back to dating. And I don't mean push ups. You are either looking for a reason to sabotage every relationship, or you are so inflexible that you might as well give up.
    What kind of work on myself would you suggest?

    As David Lee Roth once said: "The problem with self-improvement is knowing when to quit."

    Quote Originally Posted by Chicken lady View Post
    what flaws would you find acceptable? And I don't mean "I can overlook this" I mean "this is ok." Because nobody deserves to be in a relationship with someone who is "forgiving" their shortcomings all the time.
    If someone had a weakness for cookies, I would be fine with that. Or if someone did not like interesting books and films, I would probably be fine with that. If a woman was overweight or too skinny, I would be okay with that, so long as they were generally healthy and active. I am fairly open-minded, I think.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yppej View Post
    You might want to read Rebecca Traister and Stephanie Koontz among others. Women are getting more degrees, getting better jobs, and no longer have an economic need for men. Increasingly I am hearing the phrase "happy wife happy life" as women are less and less willing to settle. It might behoove the OP to reflect on whether his mindset that he sets rules and screens people out has served him well. So basically what Chicken Lady said.
    Women are getting more degrees? Great! I like smart women.

    Women are getting better jobs? Excellent! I like women who are also resourceful.
    Though I think an addiction to workahol is a bad rad flag.

    Having and enjoying a relationship takes time and some focus. If you are at the office all the time or always on the clock, you're not going to be a good partner to me or anyone. Make sense?

    I think both people set the rules and standards. Going into a relationship I have my standards, she has her's. Do they jive and merge well? That is part of creating a relationship.

    "Happy wife, happy life?" Wow. There is a real sense of entitlement coming out. That saying is as old as the hills, by the way. How about this instead?

    "Mutually happy life partners, happy life?"

    I know it does not roll off the tongue, but I like the meaning better as it is gender egalitarian.

  4. #94
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    My daughter has played around with polyamory and open relationships. When she asks me about whether her she should or shouldn't, my answer is always "Relationships are about agreements. If both sides agree to a certain thing, whether it's how to spend household money or how many partners they have on the side, things will probably be fine as long as they agree to and abide by the terms."

    So it's not about running around trying to make a woman happy, it's about finding the terms that both of you can live with. Sounds like you feel you and your potential partner are going to have to agree on total honesty, and anything else is going to break the relationship.

    But I think Yppej has a point. As a general rule, I think both men and women bring higher expectations into a long-term relationship than they used to be and are gun-shy about marriage. Some have said it's a byproduct of having seen so many of their parents' marriages fail.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    My daughter has played around with polyamory and open relationships. When she asks me about whether her she should or shouldn't, my answer is always "Relationships are about agreements. If both sides agree to a certain thing, whether it's how to spend household money or how many partners they have on the side, things will probably be fine as long as they agree to and abide by the terms."

    So it's not about running around trying to make a woman happy, it's about finding the terms that both of you can live with. Sounds like you feel you and your potential partner are going to have to agree on total honesty, and anything else is going to break the relationship.

    But I think Yppej has a point. As a general rule, I think both men and women bring higher expectations into a long-term relationship than they used to be and are gun-shy about marriage. Some have said it's a byproduct of having seen so many of their parents' marriages fail.
    Mine was the first divorce in my family -- uncles, aunts, cousins, etc. included. My parents are still together.

  6. #96
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultralight View Post
    Mine was the first divorce in my family -- uncles, aunts, cousins, etc. included. My parents are still together.
    I was just speaking in general. My mother divorced three times and I'm on year 40 of my 1st marriage. But I still believe that some people a) don't see as much value in marriage because of the failure rate and b) they don't "need" to get married, especially if they don't want children. But even then, some women would rather have just a child than a child+husband.

    Check out this survey: https://www.bgsu.edu/ncfmr/resources...-fp-15-12.html

    "Two in five men and women indicate that marriage has not worked out for most people they know."

    "Half of singles who have ever cohabited express pessimism toward marriage"

    And this from Gallup:

    Most millennials have not yet married, and they are waiting longer to marry. For 34-year-olds, just over half (56%) are married, and of these, 83% have children. But a substantial number (46%) of those who have never been married and are well into their 30s have children. This may represent a seismic shift in the connection between marriage and child rearing because as recently as 2000, the comparable percentage of single/never married 30- to 34-year-olds with children was just 30%.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    But even then, some women would rather have just a child than a child+husband.
    I have known women like this. And it is incredibly selfish in my opinion. One is married and has said: "I would rather have a baby than have my husband."

    Another woman I know, after struggling as a single mom for a few years, married a different guy and then had two more kids by him. She said: "The only reason I married my husband was because I wanted more kids."

  8. #98
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    I misremembered what you said and didn't reread - my apologies.

    also, I appreciate it when my husband admits that he was wrong (but your friend could argue, maybe I am just saying that)

    cookies, weight, books and films.

    make yourself a comprehensive list look it over. What are your must haves? be honest with yourself. LIST those values that you need to have in common. "Honesty,..."

    imagine this his hypothetical woman. What do you have to offer her? I think it was George burns who was supposed to have said that he wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have him as a member. I wonder if you are taking a similar approach to dating. Asking, no data. But if that is the case, you need to either become somebody your imaginary woman (a realistic imaginary woman) would want, change your standards, or resign yourself to being alone.

    it seems like you put up with a couple of major incompatibilities in your last relationship, and yet, I am wondering if you are checking people off too quickly over minor ones in your dating experiences. Just wondering, again, no real data. I agree that if someone makes a mistake, an apology is in order. But do you come across as forgiving?

    also give yourself and others room to be flexible. It's ok to have both hard and soft limits. A long time ago I think I told you that when I was dating, one of the things I led with was "I want six kids." I really meant that. But dh didn't want six kids. Which didn't stop him from dating me. And after a while I decided the fact that he wanted kids was enough. I avoided a relationship (with a guy who probably would have been open to six kids) because we started out with a dating profile type approach "this is who I am, this is what I want" - I was open to Buddhism, but couldn't see myself ever becoming vegetarian. Still not buddhist, but am vegetarian.

  9. #99
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    I know that there is nothing wrong with being single. There is also nothing wrong with sleeping on the floor. I just find both unpleasant in the long term.

  10. #100
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    CL:

    LOL! I have actually said: "I am not sure I'd want to be in a relationship with a woman who'd have me as a boyfriend."

    Obviously, I said it in jest. But still, funny!

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