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Thread: Ballpark shooting

  1. #11
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CathyA View Post
    It's very disconcerting to me that we can't deal with the violence issue in this country.
    That's because we keep diverting the issue to 'gun control' as if that is the answer to the problem. It's not.
    Just look at Europe where they have very effective gun control, the violence simply takes another form.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  2. #12
    Senior Member CathyA's Avatar
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    I'm convinced that it's all our freedoms and rights that are coming back to bite us. When everyone has so many rights/freedoms, it becomes nearly impossible to clean up messes. Sometimes you have to get unfair/inequitable/less "humane" in order to clean up society. But in "civilized" societies, some of these ideas are considered outrageous and "unfair". It's quite a dilemma. We're even fair to monsters........who, many times, are eventually let out in society to cause problems again. There MUST be a way to make things better for good people.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Ultralight's Avatar
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    We have a massive gun problem in this country. But I don't think laws are going to fix the problem.

    The problem is in us. We need to change ourselves, the way we think, our culture.
    I came from a real tough neighborhood. I put my hand in some cement and felt another hand." -- Rodney Dangerfield

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by CathyA View Post
    I think most people here really try to avoid talking about the gun problem we have in this country. Like Congress, there seems to be no middle ground. I think some here are more open to compromise than others.

    I watched an interview of a man (forget who exactly) who was on the ball field playing when the shooting occurred. He went on and on about how they (in Congress) have to be more open to each other, and into compromise. The interviewer said something like "How can we deal with situations like this?".......and he responded "Well, I know my colleague so-and-so and I have decided to carry a gun with us here."

    It might be a natural reaction to escalate the defense by arming one's self.......but surely there are alternative ways of dealing with things, other than everyone walking around armed and read to shoot at a moment's notice.

    We, in this country, keep talking, talking, talking and don't fix anything. We have a horrible gun problem in this country, but nobody wants to give up their guns. Yes, most of you here who own guns are responsible gun owners.......but there must be some compromise where we can deal with this issue without gun owners freaking out when talking about somehow limiting the guns out there. Seems like our "rights" are keeping us unsafe.
    It's very disconcerting to me that we can't deal with the violence issue in this country.
    Perhaps too many of us still believe that the best response to an abuse of liberty is not to restrict liberty.

  5. #15
    Senior Member CathyA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    Perhaps too many of us still believe that the best response to an abuse of liberty is not to restrict liberty.
    Well..........we're seeing how that works.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultralight View Post
    Perhaps civil society is breaking down... very slowly, very incrementally.

    Either way, my motto for a while has just been: "Brace for impact."

    I see things steadily getting worse.
    I see some hopeful signs coming from this incident.

    For instance, the New York Times retracted that vile editorial claiming there was a more direct line between overheated political rhetoric and the Gabby Giffords shooting than for this case. That was too much even for many on the left to stomach. If the NYT is still capable of shame, at least in extreme circumstances, surely there is a future for the republic.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultralight View Post
    We have a massive gun problem in this country. But I don't think laws are going to fix the problem.

    The problem is in us. We need to change ourselves, the way we think, our culture.
    Just start by removing the ban against research on gun violence!! Most people still don't know that we cannot get good research on this. So no wonder if is left up to the extreme of both sides.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by CathyA View Post
    I'm convinced that it's all our freedoms and rights that are coming back to bite us. When everyone has so many rights/freedoms, it becomes nearly impossible to clean up messes. Sometimes you have to get unfair/inequitable/less "humane" in order to clean up society.
    That is the logic of tyranny.

    There will always be some freedom "we can no longer afford". I'm reluctant to believe surrendering freedom to authoritarian government power is the best path to safety. Ultralight has the right of it: this is ultimately more a cultural than a policy issue.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Williamsmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CathyA View Post
    Well..........we're seeing how that works.
    There are plenty of utopian examples where liberty is restricted in order to preserve the peace. North Korea comes to mind. Cuba is really a shining example. Great places to live. You don't hear much about freedoms and rights coming back to bite their populations.

    Back in 1970, The Guess Who released a popular album with a catchy little song called "Share the Land". I suspect this is the kind of place you are thinking about. I also dream about a chocolate chip cookie that doesn't make me fat but neither of these exist.

    Maybe I'll be there to shake your hand (Shake your hand)Maybe I'll be there to share the land (Share the land)That they'll be givin' awayWhen we all live together, together, together(Shake your hand, share the land)You know I'll be standing by to help you if you worry(Shake your hand, share the land)Now more sadness, no more sorrow, and no more bad times(Shake your hand, share the land)Everyday comin' sunshine, everyday everybody laughin'(Shake your hand, share the land)Walkin' together by the river, walkin' together and laughin'(Shake your hand, share the land)Everybody singin' together, everybody singin' and laughin'(Shake your hand, share the land)Good times, good times, everybody walkin' by the river now(Shake your hand, share the land)Walkin', singin' and talkin', smilin', laughin', diggin' each other(Shake your hand, share the land)Everybody happy together, I'll be there to worry you if you need-a me(Shake your hand, share the land)Call on me, call on me, call my name, I'll be runnin' to help you(Shake your hand, share the land)Everybody walkin' by the river now, everyday everybody laughin'(Shake your hand, share the land)Everybody singin' and talkin', smilin', laughin', diggin' each other

  10. #20
    Senior Member CathyA's Avatar
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    But its not an all-or-none situation.

    I know some of you think that if one freedom/right is "adjusted", then the next step is tyranny. I think we can work in small steps...........like getting rid of cancers in our penal system. (ooops......"correctional system".)

    Many states don't have the death penalty. If you have undeniable DNA evidence that someone has committed a horrendous crime, why not remove that person from this universe? We can't even do that. Some cry "Oh........but that's inhumane!"

    So, it's humane when we have to spend so much money to keep them in prisons, feed them, keep them healthy.....while they become part of the worst elements in the prisons and form gangs, etc.? We can't even make small moves to make this society better/safer. All our moves are "fair" bandaids. We have shootings every night in the city near here. A new sheriff and new mayor vowed to keep the violence down.......but nothing changes. Make criminals know that if they want to do a crime......they may lose their lives. I know there are so many complex issues that have brought us to this point. I'm thinking maybe we're at the point of no return. I just don't know. But don't we have to start somewhere? Don't we have to start getting tough somewhere?

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