Nothing wrong with looking! Not anymore...?

[Ultralight]

But don't get me wrong, I have helped and empowered others and continue to do so.
I just don't want a big family. And I definitely don't want kids.

[frugal-one]

I have cast bread upon water and fish came up and ate it.

And, you ate the fish.

[SteveinMN]

What I meant by women seeing potential in a man was that they say how his success trajectory was going upward or likely to go upward.

Women posting here have pointed out that many evaluate far more than earning potential in determining a man's "success trajectory". Income is an easy measurement. But it is not the only one. Nor is it the only measure of a man as a potential mate.

But I think I could be a lot more popular with women at this stage in life if I was willing to take care of all the kids they had with Mr. Excitement (or with several Mr. Excitements). The problem with this arrangement (for me) is that I want to be loved firstly for who I am, not what I can provide financially and by my labor. The other thing is, I will admit, that it is a real punch to my ego -- "She had all that hot, wild fun time with Mr. Excitement; now it is the boring, laborious years with me -- working, paying bills, taking her kids to soccer games, piano lessons, chess club, etc. making dinner and packing lunches for her kids, etc."

Mr. Excitement will have gotten the passionate version of her, while I get the difficult obligations.

For various reasons completely unrelated to this topic, my ex and I never had kids. When I started dating after my divorce I knew there was a good chance I would be dating women with children. In fact, I did. One had pre-teenagers; most had kids in high school and college; yet another had one child, in college. Being a dad was out of my comfort zone so I was a bit apprehensive. But I can learn. And there are some secrets to this.

One is that, to the children of women you are dating, you will be "the guy who's with their mom". You will not be their father. They already have a father unless he is completely out of the scene for some reason (death, etc.), in which case they're used to mom performing both functions. Granted things are a little different for you since women are having children later in life all the time. But you just as easily could date someone your age whose kids are not far away from launch. You may become a role model for children whose father is, umm, maybe not exemplary. You don't strike me as someone who has a problem being a role model. You will, if my long experience with dates and women friends is any indication, find that moms will put their children (especially minor children) before new relationships with new guys. But that probably could be considered self-selection.

If things go well with mom, you may well end up driving kids to lessons and packing lunches and paying for field trips. But, if that's not seen by the kids as distasteful tasks you do because you want to be with their mom, you may well discover some truly interesting young men and women and new perspectives on our world. You may discover kids who have never gone fishing and are interested in this passion of yours. You can choose to be open to developing a relationship with them (as they choose to be open to having a relationship with you). But there definitely are rewards to that.

Finally, if I may put this delicately, the most torrid romance I ever had was with one of the moms with kids at/near college age. There was nothing boring or laborious about it. We also introduced each other to new activities. She took me to my very first pro hockey game. I introduced her to Japanese food. The relationship did not work out. But I never have considered time spent with that woman (and with her kids) wasted time, energy, or money.

Originally Posted by SteveinMN
Not saying this is your issue, UL. It's just my experience in the world.

Feel free to speculate on my issue.

Writing "your issue" was lazy verbiage on my part. But, since I don't see a smiley at the end of your sentence, OK, I'll play.

I believe strongly in The Law Of Attraction. Not everyone who wants to succeed at something will succeed, but people who are sure they're going to fail... fail. People who believe they're "cr@p magnets"... attract cr@p. Someone who goes into dating believing all they could end up with are uninteresting dried-up husks of people with numerous obligations are going to miss out on some really fulfilling relationships. Not every relationship will be marriage material; sometimes one uncovers some new facet of ourselves that we enjoy or confirms for us some value or concept on which we won't again want to compromise. We are all the sum of our experiences. The more the experience, the bigger the sum. If we only see dollar signs, though, we're likely going to have only a small sum.

[catherine]

People who believe they're "cr@p magnets"... attract cr@p.

So true.

Nice post, Steve.

I love your insights from the male perspective on what it's like dating/marrying a woman with kids. I would never try to talk UL into something that he seems pretty solidly determined that he has no interest in (marrying into a family). But I do think you have highlighted some of the upside of that.

My mother remarried a man 10 years younger than she. She was 38, he was 28. She had 4 kids ranging from 7-17, he had none. I don't know what was going through his head when he married her (probably something like "holy ****, WHAT am I getting myself into!!"). But I have always marveled at how this high school educated 20-something with no positive parental role models was able to delicately walk the line between being a father-figure without overstepping those "You're NOT my father!" bounds that kids are really good at defining--at least in their minds.

He was great. He was reliable, dependable, and fun. He was a like a big brother home from college. He would make us laugh. He'd set out the cereal bowls at night for the morning and when we got up there would be goofy cartoon drawings put in them. He took us to motorcycle races and drove us around Time Square. He took us on vacation to a sober family camp. When my biological father died on the streets in the Bowery and I spent the afternoon crying, he simply knocked on my door once and asked if I was OK. He was only in our lives 5 years, but they were 5 very important years. He really enriched our lives, and considering he spent the rest of his life addicted to pills and alcohol, I like to think we enriched his life for 5 years as well. Oh, and he never made much money. With no college degree, he was a draftsman at an asbestos plant. My mother was just happy the guy had a job.

So you don't have to always be "the guy that mom's with." You can be the guy who really makes a difference in the lives of a couple of kids.

But you do have to have the stomach for it, that's for sure.