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Thread: Will Trump behave himself at the G20 summit?

  1. #111
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmc View Post
    like colleges, it was before the government got involved.
    If you'd ever been in a back room of a focus group to find out how much families would be willing to sacrifice for 3 months of their loved ones lives (could we charge $10k a treatment? Would they take out a second mortgage? Let's do a cost analysis on the # of people who would be willing to pay $14k a treatment vs $10k), you'd know you can't just pin it all on the government.
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  2. #112
    Senior Member dmc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    If you'd ever been in a back room of a focus group to find out how much families would be willing to sacrifice for 3 months of their loved ones lives (could we charge $10k a treatment? Would they take out a second mortgage? Let's do a cost analysis on the # of people who would be willing to pay $14k a treatment vs $10k), you'd know you can't just pin it all on the government.
    If the families wanted to pay, that is fine. But I read somewhere that the majority of healthcare cost were from the final few months. Maybe we need to accept that we can't afford to keep everyone alive for that last month or two.

  3. #113
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    Medical bills are the number one cause for American families to declare bankruptcy. Here's an article about this:

    http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/...to-expect.html

    Here is a relevant quote:

    But medical bankruptcy doesnít just happen to the uninsured. In fact, research shows that many people who file for bankruptcy due to exorbitant medical costs have existing health insurance.
    ďItís not just the medical bills itís really everything around the bills that insurance wonít cover,Ē says Ethan Austin, co-founder of Internet-based fundraising service GiveForward. He says 78% of people that file for medical bankruptcy had insurance.

  4. #114
    Senior Member dmc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    Also, frankly, it doesnt help my empathy to hear ad nauseum how one member of our group here despises the taxpayers of the U.S.A. for their lack of "human dignity" and yet sucked down a good quarter of a million $ in hospital care in recent years with no charge to him.

    While I don't expect groveling thanks, I do expect simple recognition that he was taken care of. But his drumbeat of "not good enough, never good enough, despicable" leads me to think that there are a lot of people out there with unrealistic expectations of how much things cost and how much the taxpayer is willing to give. This attitude is extremely wearing.
    To be fair, I believe he was willing to put in a few hours at his local charity to give back. If he put in 8 hrs a week for this at $15 an hour, he would be all square after 40yrs.

  5. #115
    Senior Member dmc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tybee View Post
    Medical bills are the number one cause for American families to declare bankruptcy. Here's an article about this:

    http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/...to-expect.html

    Here is a relevant quote:

    But medical bankruptcy doesn’t just happen to the uninsured. In fact, research shows that many people who file for bankruptcy due to exorbitant medical costs have existing health insurance.
    “It’s not just the medical bills it’s really everything around the bills that insurance won’t cover,” says Ethan Austin, co-founder of Internet-based fundraising service GiveForward. He says 78% of people that file for medical bankruptcy had insurance.
    How many people have an emergency Fund? Wasn't there a study that said even the poor spend 40% of their money on luxury items.

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmc View Post
    How many people have an emergency Fund? Wasn't there a study that said even the poor spend 40% of their money on luxury items.
    I am not familiar with that study-- can you remember when you saw that, so we can look for a link?

  7. #117
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    Here's an article from 2016 about emergency funds:
    http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/21/66-mi...y-savings.html

    It's focused on a 3 months fund, that could cover 3 months. They talk about percentages of people who have saved that much-- but of course, if you get hit with a life threatening illness, 3 months savings is going to go fast, and you have lost wages, lost abilities, lost future income, along with the medical bills.

  8. #118
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    Also, frankly, it doesnt help my empathy to hear ad nauseum how one member of our group here despises the taxpayers of the U.S.A. for their lack of "human dignity" and yet sucked down a good quarter of a million $ in hospital care in recent years with no charge to him.

    While I don't expect groveling thanks, I do expect simple recognition that he was taken care of. But his drumbeat of "not good enough, never good enough, despicable" leads me to think that there are a lot of people out there with unrealistic expectations of how much things cost and how much the taxpayer is willing to give. This attitude is extremely wearing.
    First, I expect that quarter of a million figure was wildly inflated on paper, but still--how the hell do medical "care" providers get off charging such exorbitant amounts? I'd love to see an accounting of actual costs, minus profit margins, kickbacks, and padding. The one time I had an operation, some forty years ago, I was charged $70 for a light used in the surgical theater. Really? But back then, I could have easily paid for the whole thing. Not any more.

  9. #119
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmc View Post
    If the families wanted to pay, that is fine. But I read somewhere that the majority of healthcare cost were from the final few months. Maybe we need to accept that we can't afford to keep everyone alive for that last month or two.
    My father-in-law passed away last month, in his 90s. He had quite good insurance. He had terminal cancer, and was in good shape when he passed away. He decided to go out while still in possession of some dignity and intellect, and so out out strength of will simply stopped eating and drinking to precipitate the end. I talked with him quite a lot over this decision. If he had engaged in heroic treatments, he would have lived another 6-12 months likely. One of the factors, though not the main one, was when he saw how much his final months were going to cost, even with his insurance.

    He was frugal to a fault. He had accumulated a significant estate over the years, though his only employment throughout his life was as a college professor. He left the bulk of his estate to a research institution he founded, an organization that meant a great deal to him, and when he saw that he'd burn through a huge pile of assets during his last months on Earth, he thought he'd rather preserve the capital for them, than "waste" it on himself.

    My mother-in-law passed away the previous year, and her decision and actions were quite similar.

    I don't know that I disagree with their actions. If you are elderly, the last months of your life can be very very expensive. Both parents were in hospice care, but the expenses are still heroic. And if the patient wishes treatment instead, I imagine the costs are even more special - the dose of the cutting-edge cancer medication that they were arranging for my father-in-law was going to be > $20k. (And it would be easy to shriek "Greed! Profits!", but I simply have no foundation to analyze the cost situation for that medication.)

  10. #120
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmc View Post
    How many people have an emergency Fund? Wasn't there a study that said even the poor spend 40% of their money on luxury items.
    With all due respect, dmc, do you know how hard it is for someone making subsistence wages to build up an emergency fund that will cover a heart attack? How do they cover that, and also save for a house? For their children't education? Let's take me for example, in 1995. I earned 28k, and I was the breadwinner, essentially. My net pay twice a month was $1008. I had $27.74 taken out for federal tax, $51.82 for SS, $12.12 for Medicare, $12.58 for NJ state income tax, and $11.34 for SDI. I also "chose" to have $172.22 deducted for my family health plan, $2.65 for LTD, 5.51 for STD, and I parted with $20.16 for my 401k. That left me with a net of 691.93, or $1383.86/mo. Out of that, I had to pay rent. I had to buy food. My husband's income was sporadic, so we couldn't count on it.

    First of all, as you can see, there's no way I could have found 40% of that pay to blow on stuff. And I'd really like to see the source for the statistic you quoted. Do you know how hard it is to even save a couple of hundred bucks when you're living like this? And how many couple of hundred bucks a month does it take to pay for a heart attack? 10 years worth.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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