Crossing the border next Thursday, a little apprehensive.....

[gimmethesimplelife]

Help me out please. Which line?

The line of shutting down that which you individually and the line at which society as a whole disagrees with. How do we define this for ourselves individually, and how does/should society as a whole define such? Not an easy question to answer, is it? (at least it is not for me personally, especially the part about society as a whole). Rob

[Geila]

Rob - I'd have a hard time choosing a favorite city because they all have something unique. The colonial cities reminded me of Europe, but way cheaper and less crowded. When I visited the area was very safe, it saddens me to think that's not the case anymore. I know the violence did enter into Oaxaca, which used to be a lovely city. I only spent a morning in Guadalajara so I went in search of posole! I found a great little place and was introduced to white posole (I'd only ever had red). I thought it was a beautiful city, I got to watch it wake up and got some amazing pictures. Oh, I've also heard that Patzcuaro has a fantastic Dia de los Muertos festival. That would be nice to experience some day.

On the issue of people who bother us - in an online community it is so easy to just not engage with someone who bothers you. If someone who bothers you starts a thread, why not just ignore it and go about your business? It's so easy! Instead, a number of people choose to continually harass the person. Even now, there are a number of people who are still posting on this thread harassing others. It's as if they get a particular pleasure from poking at others with a stick. Don't they have better things to do with their time? Middle-aged bullies are tiresome and unpleasant.

I think it might be a good time for individual members to think of what values they wish to promote in this community. It was created as a community for people who wish to embrace simple living. How does bullying tie in with simple living? Or disrespect for the opinions of others? Or belittling a fellow community member on a continual basis? Even when asked to stop?

This used to be wonderful community with lots of engagement and a strong focus on building a sense of empowerment for it's members. Living simply in a consumer society does take determination and sacrifice. And a having a community to come to for support was a huge boon. And yes, it was a safe space. I don't think creating safe spaces is a bad thing. If this site doesn't offer something positive, what's the point of engaging? People will go search for it elsewhere. There's lots of wonderful people who visit this site, but there is an unpleasant loud group that dominates the tone of the interactions. It makes coming here an unpleasant experience. But the only people who can change that, if change is desired, are the rest of the members. It's really up to them.

[Alan]

There's lots of wonderful people who visit this site, but there is an unpleasant loud group that dominates the tone of the interactions. It makes coming here an unpleasant experience. But the only people who can change that, if change is desired, are the rest of the members. It's really up to them.

So, are you suggesting that the members should say something to the person who creates the thousand or so (that's an exaggeration, it's probably not more than several hundred) negative threads?

Conversely, should we re-brand the site as the "Why I hate America" discussion forums so that one poster can continually regale us all with their thoughts on the subject.

[Geila]

So, are you suggesting that the members should say something to the person who creates the thousand or so negative threads?

I am suggesting that if someone bothers you, that you simply not engage with them. Why is that hard to understand? If someone posts, and you already know that you don't agree with that person's world view, just ignore the post. And go about your own business, posting whatever you feel like posting about. Isn't that how online sites are set up? We don't need to respond to every post. We can create our own threads about the things we like and want to talk about? Why would I waste my time harassing someone for their world view?

I genuinely do not understand why several people here are unable to cease harassing others. I'm further surprised by the need to clarify what it means to ignore someone who's view you don't like. There's a dynamic at play that is starting to feel really unpleasant. I came here looking for connection and support in seeking to live a simple life. This is not what that looks like to me. This ugliness is making my life less simple and less pleasant. And I'm getting to the point where I really resent that a few aggressive and dominant people choose to continue this ugliness.

[Alan]

I'm further surprised by the need to clarify what it means to ignore someone who's view you don't like. There's a dynamic at play that is starting to feel really unpleasant. I came here looking for connection and support in seeking to live a simple life. This is not what that looks like to me. This ugliness is making my life less simple and less pleasant. And I'm getting to the point where I really resent that a few aggressive and dominant people choose to continue this ugliness.

As it happens, there's several others here who feel the same way, although they're apparently all on Ignore now as a result of expressing the same frustrations you feel free to publish.

[gimmethesimplelife]

So, are you suggesting that the members should say something to the person who creates the thousand or so (that's an exaggeration, it's probably not more than several hundred) negative threads?

Here's a neutral take I have on this whole issue of "negative threads". This is a board concerning living more simply, correct? Are we in agreement on this much, Alan? Moving on from this point, living simpler to me personally (and it's cool if others don't follow me on this, just hear me out is all I ask) is an EXTREMELY broad topic.

I will spare you'all repetition of the zip code, we all know my zip by now, let's move on from that, please. My upcoming point? Where I live things like police brutality, fear regarding access to health care, fear of dealing with US CBP when crossing the border (only reason to begin with for crossing the border was to access services priced out of reach in the US to begin with)....these are daily fears that very much complicate life. Day in, day out, these issues are there 24/7/365. Like it or not this reality is not going to poof - just go away.

I understand that this is not everyone here's life experience or reality. Understood and granted here and now. My question here though: Are we so elitist that there is no room for these genuine issues that do indeed plague more than a tiny subset of the US population? I'm going to be brutally honest here in a non-nasty way: Certain members here do come across as very elitist. Also, the overall tone here does resemble high school at times (with some posters, please let me state here and now not all). My further take is that I am not here to win any popularity contest or win over anyone's positive opinion of me - I am here to discuss that which makes my life less simple. Guess what? Where I live the issues that I have posted DO INDEED COMPLICATE THE LIVES OF MANY. (capitalized not to offend or scream but to show respect for all those dealing with said issues). Should an individual poster not experience this reality, great - and I mean this sincerely with no snark or jealousy - we all have our crosses to bear in life - how can I know that someone more secure than myself is not suffering in some other off-board way? I can't know that, obviously. But this what I post is reality for more than just a few Americans and by golly, it does indeed complicate life. If certain people can't have some respect or at least some neutrality at rock bottom, is there any reason that they can not block me as I have blocked them? I'm not especially computer literate and I've managed to block several people with whom I have had issues - is it too hard for them to do the same for me in return should they find my pixels so distressful to run across?

I was not aware that our posts were to be approved through the filter of social class. Care to comment? Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

I am suggesting that if someone bothers you, that you simply not engage with them. Why is that hard to understand? If someone posts, and you already know that you don't agree with that person's world view, just ignore the post. And go about your own business, posting whatever you feel like posting about. Isn't that how online sites are set up? We don't need to respond to every post. We can create our own threads about the things we like and want to talk about? Why would I waste my time harassing someone for their world view?

I genuinely do not understand why several people here are unable to cease harassing others. I'm further surprised by the need to clarify what it means to ignore someone who's view you don't like. There's a dynamic at play that is starting to feel really unpleasant. I came here looking for connection and support in seeking to live a simple life. This is not what that looks like to me. This ugliness is making my life less simple and less pleasant. And I'm getting to the point where I really resent that a few aggressive and dominant people choose to continue this ugliness.

Thank You. I could not agree with you more, Geila, and I share the same lack of understanding regarding issues you have highlighted. Furthermore, not being directly involved in this, you have stated things more calmly than I can and I both Thank You and appreciate your presence here. Rob

[Alan]

Here's a neutral take I have on this whole issue of "negative threads".......
.........
.........
I was not aware that our posts were to be approved through the filter of social class. Care to comment? Rob

Yeah, that's funny.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Yeah, that's funny.

Sorry, Alan, I don't follow you here. Rob

[Geila]

Thank You. I could not agree with you more, Geila, and I share the same lack of understanding regarding issues you have highlighted. Furthermore, not being directly involved in this, you have stated things more calmly than I can and I both Thank You and appreciate your presence here. Rob

Rob - I get it! It's about power. Duh. That's why some people refuse to move on and leave others alone. They need to feel they have the power to control everything and everyone. And being ignored makes them feel powerless. That's why them keep harassing and poking. They need the attention to feed their ego.

Now, the only thing left is to decide whether it's worth it to stick around. I really don't think the culture that's been entrenched here for so long is going to change. Too many people are too vested in maintaining it. And not enough people are willing to challenge it and do the work to change it. You and I alone will not be able to affect change. It would need to be a group effort, and I don't see that happening.