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Thread: Military Trans ban

  1. #11
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    I feel this is from Bannon, pulling his puppet to the kind of world he wants. Also deflection and distraction from the failures of this person not even trying to be a leader. I don't think he is smart enough to think of these ploys himself.

  2. #12
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    We're living in those "interesting times" they warned us about.

    Between "his generals" and the courts, I expect this royal proclamation to go the way of most of his other edicts.

  3. #13
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    I personally am worried that Trump and his Administration are going to go after same-sex marriages that have taken place since the law changed to allow such. I know that he has publicly stated that same sex marriage is "settled law" but I don't trust him, not one bit. There's another practical reason I'm down that Hillary didn't win - lack of faith that my marriage will be legally valid and recognized at some point during however long Trump is in office.

    For the many straight folks here - how would you feel about this Administration if you felt your opposite sex marriage was at risk of being nulled and voided due to nothing you have ever done other than your romantic attraction to the opposite sex? If you could put yourself in the shoes of those who are same-sex attracted for 30 seconds and contemplate how awful it is to feel your marriage is at risk of being nulled and voided by this administration.....maybe you can understand why there are those vehemently against Trump. Though to be fair, this is just but one reason. Rob

  4. #14
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    We're living in those "interesting times" they warned us about.

    Between "his generals" and the courts, I expect this royal proclamation to go the way of most of his other edicts.
    Jane, "interesting" I agree with in the sense of the word interesting being a euphemism (sp?) for fear based. Rob
    Last edited by gimmethesimplelife; 7-27-17 at 10:26am.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Williamsmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    We're living in those "interesting times" they warned us about.

    Between "his generals" and the courts, I expect this royal proclamation to go the way of most of his other edicts.
    I feel for the people stuck in the "meantime." I think you are right, that eventually after all the money is spent on litigation, this will go the way of the dodo bird. But what does that do for those in the military right now who received the signal that they are no longer welcome and perhaps the career they invested in is now at risk? If my child were transgender, in the armed forces and performing his/her duties admirably......I'd be irritated greatly.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Williamsmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife View Post
    I personally am worried that Trump and his Administration are going to go after same-sex marriages that have taken place since the law changed to allow such. I know that he has publicly stated that same sex marriage is "settled law" but I don't trust him, not one bit. There's another practical reason I'm down that Hillary didn't win - lack of faith that my marriage will be legally valid and recognized at some point during however long Trump is in office. For the many straight folks here - how would you feel about this Administration if you felt your opposite sex marriage was at risk of being nulled and voided due to nothing you have ever done other than your romantic attraction to the opposite sex? If you could put yourself in the shoes of those who are same-sex attracted for 30 seconds and contemplate how awful it is to feel your marriage is at risk of being nulled and voided by this administration.....maybe you can understand why there are those vehemently against Trump. Rob
    Rob, my marriage is as solid as one could expect after years of me being absent arguably during the most important times for my family but the government's recognition of my marriage is vaguely important to me. In fact, I don't know what the government's right to that recognition ever was. I would have voluntarily lived with my best friend who happens to be female.....papers or not. I truly don't know the financial implications but emotionally.....they can't null and void anything.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    . ....

    Between "his generals" and the courts, I expect this royal proclamation to go the way of most of his other edicts.
    It used to be that the recourse against these outrageous actions was a) news media coverage of the backlash and b) legal redress in the courts.

    Unfortunately I see the state courts, appeals courts and the Supreme Court becoming packed with more rightwing judges. So I am not so sure that redress is assured now.

    On a somewhat related note, I attended a debate last night for the 2 candidates for our local city council district. One happened to be a married gay man with children, the other is a married heterosexual man with children. At the beginning of the event the gay man introduced his husband and the audience applauded. Likewise when the hetero candidate introduced his wife. Basically equal polite applause both times.
    It wasn't any big deal, it just was. What's of note is that this is a district that typically votes Republican (although their slight majority is slipping every year).

    Bottom line: Trump has way over-estimated the previously fervent anti-gay agenda of his mainstream supporters. It's 2017, not 1987.

  8. #18
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Williamsmith View Post
    Rob, my marriage is as solid as one could expect after years of me being absent arguably during the most important times for my family but the government's recognition of my marriage is vaguely important to me. In fact, I don't know what the government's right to that recognition ever was. I would have voluntarily lived with my best friend who happens to be female.....papers or not. I truly don't know the financial implications but emotionally.....they can't null and void anything.
    Let's put it this way.....when I was very sick late last year with my liver infection and checked into the hospital, I was very very very happy I was married - there is no way the hospital could block my husband from visiting me - there is no way they could change my designation of him as the person to call were he not there and my condition went downhill out of nowhere. There are a myriad of legal benefits that straight (and now gay, too, I'll give you that) married couples enjoy.....I'm very fiercely protective of these rights and will be as long as I remain in the US. Rob

  9. #19
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Just for the sake of argument, there's a whole slew of physical and mental conditions which bar a person from military service. A friend of mine was discharged after 15 years of service for being 20 pounds overweight. How is this different?
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  10. #20
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    Just for the sake of argument, there's a whole slew of physical and mental conditions which bar a person from military service. A friend of mine was discharged after 15 years of service for being 20 pounds overweight. How is this different?
    I see this as very different. I don't know the reasons for the weight gain, true, but my take is that weight gain is easier to tackle than expecting denial about something inherent to someone's psychological makeup such as which gender seems the best "fit". Now I say this perfectly fine in my role as a gay man with no wish to become female or adopt female dress or mannerisms or at the risk of sounding sexist (?), female behaviors, at least least behaviors viewed by society as being "female". Although I don't agree with kicking out someone 20 pounds over some weight guideline, to kick out someone expressing themselves for who they truly are - a very personal and vicious attack. Very much so. And I say this with no skin the game as I am not transgender and have honestly not known many transgenders that I was aware of in my life. It was a very low thing of Trump to do and I sincerely hope for huge eventual legal settlements for all victimized by this decision.

    We'll see. Maybe Canada will be open to taking some of them - who knows? Canada just make a very public middle finger salute to Trump by telling the world that Canada welcomes transgenders in it's military - if things get nasty enough here, perhaps Canada may make a point of accepting US victims of Trump and offering then passports, new citizenship, and a new life with socialized medicine as part of the deal? I don't see this as being far fetched at all, especially if NAFTA gets renegotiated and Canada doesn't care for the results or if Trump is disrespectful to or abusive towards Canada. We'll see how this plays out, of course.....but at any rate I'm hoping for huge lawsuit settlements for transgendered victims of Trump's latest brilliant decision (snark intended on the last few words, yes). Rob

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