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Thread: Charlottesville

  1. #111
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    What, precisely, *should* the police have done, and when?

    What should their rules of engagement have been?

    I serve as a training crowd member for the Washington State Patrol when they do their riot training (one year we got to be zombies for an hour too, just for fun). It's tricky business, the police can't just wade into a lawful gathering and start going at it with batons...
    clearly, the sentiment here is that police need to protect the righteous and beat up the Bad guys.

    How they tell that in a crowd of dunderhrads is beyond me.

    Referring again to our many protests honoring Michael Brown, Gentle Giant and now Saint, cops suggested that protestors go home after dark because thats when things heated up, bad nicks showed up. Fights, gunshots, beatings ensued, buildings burned. But not by the police and national guard.

    In the crowds here, supposedly with everyone holding more or less the same values, shit went down and people hurt other people. Sometimes it is smart to just stand back and observe the goons marchng their little marches, waving their little flags, and spewing their little chants of hatred. Fighting over turf isstupid.

  2. #112
    Senior Member razz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    So what would you do? Operate a massive domestic spying program to monitor his online contacts and step in before their pernicious impact could manifest itself?
    We each have the responsibility for our thoughts, feelings and actions. When emotions take over, rational thought is blocked. Again, using the Princeton approach, public initiatives to address the concerns may, and I say, may, reduce those who get caught in the spiral. Some others here can better speak to how this is addressed with troubled young people around the US now.
    As Cicero said, “Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues, but the parent of all the others.”

  3. #113
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    clearly, the sentiment here is that police need to protect the righteous and beat up the Bad guys.

    How they tell that in a crowd of dunderhrads is beyond me.
    How big is the Charlottesville police department?

    How many people arrived to demonstrate? And how many arrived to counter-demonstrate?

    Two officers died in a helicopter crash during the festivities.





    Lt. H. Jay Cullen, 48, and Trooper-Pilot Berke M.M. Bates, 40.

  4. #114
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razz View Post
    Again, using the Princeton approach, public initiatives to address the concerns may, and I say, may, reduce those who get caught in the spiral.
    The Princeton approach was possible because the students weren't dressed up like the hoplites of Epaminondas, lining up and fighting each other in the streets, which gave the University time to discuss matters with words instead of mace, water cannons, and tanks.

  5. #115
    Senior Member razz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    The Princeton approach was possible because the students weren't dressed up like the hoplites of Epaminondas, lining up and fighting each other in the streets, which gave the University time to discuss matters with words instead of mace, water cannons, and tanks.
    I agree. That is where leadership comes into play. This is going to come with time, I am positive, but how many more must be harmed, how many young men sent as fresh meat' into prison first? The need has been demonstrated, will leadership step up to the plate and offer a better model of conduct to follow as Princeton did before the next rally?
    I have great faith in the intelligence of man but sometimes, I do question my faith. The alternative though, is not acceptable.

    I am out of this thread permanently.
    As Cicero said, “Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues, but the parent of all the others.”

  6. #116
    Senior Member Teacher Terry's Avatar
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    I didn't say the police should act like thugs and start hitting people but a bigger presence initially would have shown that they could control the crowd is things got out of hand. If their department is not big enough then they could have asked the National Guard for assistance. It should have come as no surprise to the leaders that removing the statue was going to be a huge problem. How about a little pre-planning?

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    The Princeton approach was possible because the students weren't dressed up like the hoplites of Epaminondas, lining up and fighting each other in the streets, which gave the University time to discuss matters with words instead of mace, water cannons, and tanks.
    Princeton also had the advantage of Woodrow Wilson being perhaps a less polarizing figure, especially among the neoconfederate intellectual elite, than Bobby Lee. Certainly not to the extent of reviving the Sacred Band of Thebes.

  8. #118
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Here's a first-person account. Apparently the Neo-Nazis came prepared to bust heads and the police enabled them.
    https://medium.com/@_chelleshock/not...e-25e5e156173b

  9. #119
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    Here's a first-person account. Apparently the Neo-Nazis came prepared to bust heads and the police enabled them.
    https://medium.com/@_chelleshock/not...e-25e5e156173b
    Tricky to trust any reports coming out of the incident at this time, given the amount of disinformation that's flying around.

  10. #120
    Senior Member Ultralight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    Tricky to trust any reports coming out of the incident at this time, given the amount of disinformation that's flying around.
    But bae! What if the report confirms exactly what you want to believe!?

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