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Thread: Charlottesville

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Williamsmith View Post
    In order the understand the response by some to the removal of Confederate statues, you must be willing to read the perspective defined by the naming of the war....."The War of Northern Agression.".
    The Confederates fired first at Fort Sumter.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    So you're saying democrats staged a nazi rally to make trump look bad? Unbelieavable
    Did he say that, or is that your supposition? Remember this thread and who it turned out to be was not who people were expecting:
    http://www.simplelivingforum.net/sho...light=cemetary

    You need evidence to know who is behind it. I expect some of these people are what we consider ignorant, some are professional protester types, and some would go there just to watch for stuff burning. I've known too many people that were in the military, and would defend any of these peoples rights to say stuff they wouldn't want their kids to hear, but would not defend violent actions.
    Thought policing doesn't work as only individuals change themselves.

  3. #23
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    We are seeing here the fruits of identity politics. Mindless tribalism centered around pulling down or defending each others' symbols. If history is truly "the set of lies we agree upon", then I suppose it makes a certain kind of sense. And not just at the street thug level. There are entire academic disciplines that aim at reinterpreting history to fit some ideological template. Was Marse Robert a chivalrous defender of his homeland or a sword of oppression? I'm inclined to the later view myself, although I'm sure he'll keep the iconoclasts and hagiographers busy for centuries. That being said, if they want statues of Stonewall Jackson in Richmond or of Lenin in Seattle, I'm not particularly moved to violent anger either way. That requires a certain kind of thinking (or perhaps of feeling).

    Should outraged people be demanding the destruction of Napoleon's Tomb? The Brandenburg Gate? The statues of Havelock or Clive or Napier in Trafalgar Square? Does Europe have the right attitude here in recognizing history for all its bloody-handedness? In Milwaukee, not a very old city by world standards, we have monuments to Leif the Lucky, Erastus B. Wolcott, Douglas Macarthur, the Fonz, Abraham Lincoln, Pere Marquette, von Steuben, Gandhi and assorted other notables who I'm sure must have offended someone at some point.

    None of this seems worth fighting or killing over. Washington and Jefferson committed treason and won. Lee and Jackson committed treason and lost. History is what it is, and doesn't much care about the changing value judgments of future generations.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    Washington and Jefferson committed treason and won. Lee and Jackson committed treason and lost.
    Do they have statues of Washington and Jefferson in England?

  5. #25
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    I have no problem with peaceful demonstrations, whether I agree with them or not; speaking out is a right we all still have. I have a big problem with someone purposefully driving their vehicle as fast as possible into a crowd of people they don't agree with. That he has been charged with only 2nd degree murder, and for a fraction of the mayhem he caused, is perplexing to me.

    Governor McAuliffe said what Trump should have--there is no place for Nazis, Neo-Nazis, White Nationalists, etc. here. We've been a pluralistic society since the Pilgrims sat down to Thanksgiving dinner with the "Indians."

  6. #26
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToomuchStuff View Post
    Did he say that, or is that your supposition? Remember this thread and who it turned out to be was not who people were expecting:
    http://www.simplelivingforum.net/sho...light=cemetary

    You need evidence to know who is behind it. I expect some of these people are what we consider ignorant, some are professional protester types, and some would go there just to watch for stuff burning. I've known too many people that were in the military, and would defend any of these peoples rights to say stuff they wouldn't want their kids to hear, but would not defend violent actions.
    Thought policing doesn't work as only individuals change themselves.
    But that thread involved one person doing something. Charlottesville was most certainly not one fake nazi trying to stir up trouble. It was a lot of real nazis. And sure, they have a right to say whatever stupid shit they want. And I have the right to call them assholes and the president a coward for not calling them out by name with his deflective "all sides" idiocy. Bottom line is he needed the racist thug vote to get elected and actively courted them in his campaign.

  7. #27
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yppej View Post
    Do they have statues of Washington and Jefferson in England?
    No. Trophies for losers is an American phenomenon.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yppej View Post
    Do they have statues of Washington and Jefferson in England?
    Yes.
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/299801095/

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    Bottom line is he needed the racist thug vote to get elected and actively courted them in his campaign.
    And????
    He needed the same thing that Hillary, or any of the other candidates needed. Enough votes from the electorate. We don't have a system for us who think none of the candidates were good.
    But that is separate from violence over a statue I think.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yppej View Post
    Do they have statues of Washington and Jefferson in England?
    Yes. At least with regard to Washington.

    https://almostchosenpeople.wordpress...falgar-square/

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