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Thread: Charlottesville

  1. #51
    Senior Member dmc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    I have no problem with peaceful demonstrations, whether I agree with them or not; speaking out is a right we all still have. I have a big problem with someone purposefully driving their vehicle as fast as possible into a crowd of people they don't agree with. That he has been charged with only 2nd degree murder, and for a fraction of the mayhem he caused, is perplexing to me.

    Governor McAuliffe said what Trump should have--there is no place for Nazis, Neo-Nazis, White Nationalists, etc. here. We've been a pluralistic society since the Pilgrims sat down to Thanksgiving dinner with the "Indians."
    So he's OK with antifa and black lives matter?

  2. #52
    Senior Member dmc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    The Washington Post did an analysis. Detroit voting records seem murky. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.0b344285968e Otherwise, there's no direct evidence. I remain suspicious.
    more votes than voters. 95%" to Hillary. 3% to Trump. Damn Russians.

    http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...tein/95570866/

  3. #53
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    Men in my family traditionally did their military duty without complaint or seeking deferments. All the same, I feel more loyalty to my neck of the PNW woods than I do to the increasingly dysfunctional "United" States.
    I suspect General Lee and others of his era felt the same. Be careful in these times you're not considered guilty of treason and erased from history.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  4. #54
    Yppej
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    Oh Lee will not be erased from history any more than Hitler. But you don't find statues of the Fuhrer in Germany.

    This fixation on self-esteem, where even 150 years after the fact losers must be coddled, and told that the enslavement and brutalization of millions of hunan beings for which they fought, somehow had some salvageable honor to it, is pathetic.

  5. #55
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowerseverywhere View Post
    The difference is in the groups. One is a hate group that wants to get rid of and suppress those of specific race, color or religions.
    The other group is asking for a wedding cake to celebrate love and commitment. How does the concept of being lbgtq hurt anyone. They are not telling anyone they should be lgbtq by asking to bake a cake .
    yes, I understand that one is Good and one is Bad.

    I should have been more clear. I was referring to a legal requirement that a business must give service to someone who holds an ideology disliked by the business owner. It is the legal requirement that is the problem.


    The Supreme Court is hearing the baker's case sometime soon, and I hope even Ruth Bader Ginsburg would not agree with your statement as a legal argument, but then who knows what she will come up with, I suppose anything to support the Good while sacrificing constitutional principle is ok.

  6. #56
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yppej View Post
    Oh Lee will not be erased from history any more than Hitler. But you don't find statues of the Fuhrer in Germany.

    This fixation on self-esteem, where even 150 years after the fact losers must be coddled, and told that the enslavement and brutalization of millions of hunan beings for which they fought, somehow had some salvageable honor to it, is pathetic.
    Here is an interesting op-ed piece in the Times, which relates to what you said Yppej: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/12/o...imes&smtyp=cur

    The bigotocracy is angry that slavery is seen as this nation’s original sin. And yet they remain depressingly and purposefully ignorant of what slavery was, how it happened, what it did to us, how it shaped race and the air and space between white and black folk, and the life and arc of white and black cultures.

    If our Native American friends are right, and it takes 7 generations to erase the "original sin" of our fathers, we still have roughly 50 years to go before we work all this out.

    When my kids were very small, I went with my DH on one of. his sales calls to Charlotte, NC. We were in the hotel elevator with an older white gentleman. We went up one floor, door opened, and a black family walked on. We went up one more floor, and that same black family walked off. The door closed, and the white gentleman said to us (within earshot of my young children, of course): "Glad that stench is gone. I don't just hate n---s, I despise them."

    I have never forgotten that. I know that racism is sometimes more hidden in places like New York than NC but still. I was flabbergasted. He was talking to total strangers, assuming we would agree with him because we were white. I don't know what might have pumped him up with that kind of hate in his life, but it's just a horrible waste of energy,
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  7. #57
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    I suspect General Lee and others of his era felt the same. Be careful in these times you're not considered guilty of treason and erased from history.
    And my commemorative statue toppled...

  8. #58
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    yes, I understand that one is Good and one is Bad.

    I should have been more clear. I was referring to a legal requirement that a business must give service to someone who holds an ideology disliked by the business owner. It is the legal requirement that is the problem.


    The Supreme Court is hearing the baker's case sometime soon, and I hope even Ruth Bader Ginsburg would not agree with your statement as a legal argument, but then who knows what she will come up with, I suppose anything to support the Good while sacrificing constitutional principle is ok.
    Being gay or transgendered doesn't qualify as an ideology, so refusing to provide a wedding cake is more like refusing counter service to people of color. Personally, I'd take my business elsewhere and broadcast the baker's bigotry among my friends, but it makes a good test case...

  9. #59
    Senior Member Teacher Terry's Avatar
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    I won't shop at Hobby Lobby because they don't want to provide birth control through their insurance to their employees. If you run a business you don't get to choose your customers.

  10. #60
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    yes, I understand that one is Good and one is Bad.

    I should have been more clear. I was referring to a legal requirement that a business must give service to someone who holds an ideology disliked by the business owner. It is the legal requirement that is the problem.


    The Supreme Court is hearing the baker's case sometime soon, and I hope even Ruth Bader Ginsburg would not agree with your statement as a legal argument, but then who knows what she will come up with, I suppose anything to support the Good while sacrificing constitutional principle is ok.
    So you think the supremes made the wrong decision in Heart of Atlanta Motel, Inc. v. United States?

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