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Thread: Buyer's remorse about Trump?

  1. #81
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    Than why dont the presidential candidates ever come to my state.
    Because you are a safe state for one party. Given limited time and money, there's little point to a candidate on either side spending much effort there.

    The winner-takes-all scheme for electoral votes produces this effect.

  2. #82
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    Or we could modify our method of electing the president to one that doesnt enable a small handfull of states to decide who should be president of the entire country. Because, i repeat, a system where te candidates from both parties can safely ignore the needs of 38 million people and the sixth largest evonomy in the world is deeply flawed.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    Or we could modify our method of electing the president to one that doesnt enable a small handfull of states to decide who should be president of the entire country. Because, i repeat, a system where te candidates from both parties can safely ignore the needs of 38 million people and the sixth largest evonomy in the world is deeply flawed.
    Eliminating the electoral college would do more to ensure that a small handful of states absolutely decide who should be president. The only difference is that your state would be one of them.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  4. #84
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    No, it would mean that all 100 whatever million people who vote have a say. The candidates wouldnt be able to cater to the 20 million or so residents of 'swing' states like they do now. I get it. You dont want to guve up your swing state privelege.

  5. #85
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    No, it would mean that all 100 whatever million people who vote have a say. The candidates wouldnt be able to cater to the 20 million or so residents of 'swing' states like they do now. I get it. You dont want to guve up your swing state privelege.
    No, it's just that that's not how it works.

    I suppose you could start a movement to change the constitution and hope to get a 3/5 majority of the states to go along with you, although I can't imagine the fly over states abdicating their influence, small as each may be. It worked to change the way Senators were chosen so it's not an entirely novel idea.

    Speaking for myself, I think every state should be a swing state, it shows a level of ideological diversity which seems much healthier than the example of those few high population states you'd prefer run things.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  6. #86
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    Undoubtedly we have idealogical diversity here. It's just skewed further to the left than much of the rest of the country. Neither the left nor the right are monoliths of uniformity. There may be some commonalities among the majority of people in those two groups but as LDAHL has pointed out there are 320 million individual ideologies in this country.

  7. #87
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    Or we could modify our method of electing the president to one that doesnt enable a small handfull of states to decide who should be president of the entire country. Because, i repeat, a system where te candidates from both parties can safely ignore the needs of 38 million people and the sixth largest evonomy in the world is deeply flawed.
    Your state could simply eliminate its winner-take-all allocation of electoral college votes. Not all states do it this way...

    Of course, then everyone living in your state might have a proportional representation in the electoral college, so people would have to pay attention to more than just the wealthy urban centers.

  8. #88
    Senior Member flowerseverywhere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife View Post
    This Presidency has unraveled to the point that I just had a serious discussion with my husband two hours ago: Where exactly do my loyalties lie when Trump is mercifully stripped of his office, however this comes to be? Do I spend all my time at the Neighborhood Block Party, feeding my neighbors with the dishes I've promised (and will follow through on, money is already set aside and budgeted for this so no debt will be incurred), or do I spend time in Mexico for the joyous celebrations there? I've already been invited to parties - taking place at whatever date Trump gets the heave-ho - in Colonia Kennedy, an upscale neighborhood in Nogales (on the Mexican side) where my husband has relatives. I owe Mexico so much as it's always been there for me with affordable medical and dental care - at times when my life was not worth this in the United States. I'm not one to forget such or be disloyal to such.

    Ay carumba! I so wish Hillary Clinton had won, then there would be no need for such soul searching....I truly find this question of loyalty - where to spend time on the day Trump is out of office regardless of what means achieve this - extremely stressful as it's very gritty, very real, and very telling of one's character at a level some here are not going to understand. So on the one hand, I'd be thrilled to have Trump out of office, regardless of the fact that Pence is bad news, too - on the other, my remorse due to Trump is loyalty remorse - to which nation do I owe my presence to more on whatever future day Trump is out of office? I called my Mom and she's stumped on this one, too - given what a safety valve Mexico has been to me it's not an easy question. I'm ambivalent on this one, I really am. Rob

    PS This is Donald Trump at work for me - making my life perplexing at new and before this, at unheard of levels!

    Before you you get too excited think about this. If Trump resigns or otherwise does not fill his term Pence is first in line to take over. He is no dummy and he is very conservative and has contacts. It does not seem like he criticizes everyone he has to work with. Or shames them. I imagine he has been quietly working with conservatives behind the scenes on his "Christian" agenda. And because he has not been quoted all over the place and has managed to stay out of the limelight he could actually get a lot done. If you think it's bad now, a conservative Pence presidency with the house and the senate there could be much done that will whittle away at liberal policies. Things like LBGtQ rights, abortion, birth control for women, affirmative action, immigration, welfare, confederate statues, health insurance and so on.

  9. #89
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowerseverywhere View Post
    Before you you get too excited think about this. If Trump resigns or otherwise does not fill his term Pence is first in line to take over. He is no dummy and he is very conservative and has contacts. It does not seem like he criticizes everyone he has to work with. Or shames them. I imagine he has been quietly working with conservatives behind the scenes on his "Christian" agenda. And because he has not been quoted all over the place and has managed to stay out of the limelight he could actually get a lot done. If you think it's bad now, a conservative Pence presidency with the house and the senate there could be much done that will whittle away at liberal policies. Things like LBGtQ rights, abortion, birth control for women, affirmative action, immigration, welfare, confederate statues, health insurance and so on.
    Yes. This. Unlike trump's imcompetemce pence would 'get stuff done'. Unless impeachmemt also includes pence for some reason and possibly the midterms shifting power to the dems, impeachment doesnt make things better, just more stable.

  10. #90
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    Yes. This. Unlike trump's imcompetemce pence would 'get stuff done'. Unless impeachmemt also includes pence for some reason and possibly the midterms shifting power to the dems, impeachment doesnt make things better, just more stable.
    Here's my take on this: Ready to be surprised? I believe you and Flowerseverywhere are right, jp1. I especially agree with your line that removing Trump would not make things better but only more stable. This. Yes.

    At this point, with my family in Austria worried so deeply for the safety of both myself and my Mom due to Trump having access to the nuclear codes and having his ego issues and having willingness to escalate conflict with North Korea.....I'll take my chances with stable. Have a cousin you are close to and that you care about such as my Cousin Astrid in Vienna cry on the phone and tell you to be like the Jews that left Europe in World War 2 and lived because of this choice (the ones that saw the writing on the wall and left early while it was still possible to do so, Billy Wilder of Hollywood movie fame would be an example).....maybe then you would be all about stability too even though a Pence regime would be an absolute nightmare for the safety net and for human rights/Constitutional rights in general (and please I understand that I get a Pence regime would be). I would however believe that Pence would be more stable around the nuclear codes and I see this now as a situation of survival rather than mere political preference.

    I very much see the current GOP leadership (Trump, Pence, and Ryan) as absolute nightmares hell bent on destroying any hope for future for America and Americans unless they are at the top of the pyramid - once again, I look at this in terms of survival only, realizing that many people may end of leaving the United States down the road as it becomes less and less viable as a country - my wish is to have Trump removed mostly to remove his instabilities from having access to the nuclear codes. That and at least Pence knows how to behave himself and conduct himself in public even if his politics would destroy America from within - better this than the end of the human race. But I also understand that it's easy for me to say this as I don't have much hope if any for America and it's future - I'm just very unemotional and very much relentlessly practical about things now. Rob

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