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Thread: Why are there still Nazis, white supremacists etc?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    I got low, too, but honestly, as I market researcher, I have to ask, would anyone ADMIT to saying that some groups are better than others, or that equality isn't important in society?
    Apparently some will when they are marching as a group with tiki torches.

  2. #12
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razz View Post
    Bae, while I agree with your analysis of concern of the words chosen, do you think that those pro or against nazism,etc., do that depth of analysis or do they simply answer the question in terms of their understanding of just, equal etc and act accordingly?


    Why does the survey use "groups" as their subject? I thought the questions were dumb, and ambiguous as well.Of course there are some "groups" that should not "dominate" ( whatever that means) in society. I mean really, do you want two and thre year old temper tantrum throwing children making laws?

    Do you want convicted pedophiles running public schools?

    Is it better for all if serial killers chose their own prison sentence?

    etc.

  3. #13
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    I did not read the linked article but I think the answer to your thread title and first question is simply caused by evil (see dictionary definition). Called by various names, there has been and will always be evil groups and individuals in the world. I know that it is a popular theory to regard all people as basically good and evil is not a popular word but look around and you will see it is present and active in the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goldensmom View Post
    I did not read the linked article but I think the answer to your thread title and first question is simply caused by evil (see dictionary definition). Called by various names, there has been and will always be evil groups and individuals in the world. I know that it is a popular theory to regard all people as basically good and evil is not a popular word but look around and you will see it is present and active in the world.
    I didn't read the thread either, but goldensmom and I are on the same page. I will take it to a more unpopular level and answer the question with a 3 letter word. SIN... Everyone wants peace, but no one wants the Prince of peace. Sorry, but It's Sunday. You have to expect a Christian to preach, just as you would expect a dog to bark. The good new's is, "love covers a multitude of sins." Ok, I'll go away now.

  5. #15
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    A lot of perfectly vile human beings cloak themselves in (fundamentalist, usually) religion--often, a refuge of scoundrels, IMO.

  6. #16
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    A lot of perfectly vile human beings cloak themselves in (fundamentalist, usually) religion--often, a refuge of scoundrels, IMO.
    True, but many "saints" (declared and undeclared) have lived lives for others in ways that have truly enriched the world and been a beacon of hope. When it comes to religion, I agree with MLK that "many churches are social clubs with a thin veneer of religiosity" but I don't like to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

    In terms of evil, I remember reading M.Scott Peck's book, The People of the Lie a couple of decades ago and being both disturbed and curious. I had never really explored the concept of evil, but he posed some interesting theories about it. I still don't know exactly where I stand. The Dalai Lama would say the murderous terrorists are "mischeivous"; Thich Nhat Hanh says to acknowledge that we are one with them and to try to understand where they are coming from; and George Bush would call them "evil-doers."

    Once we label someone "evil" we shut them out, and the "us vs them" story continues. It burns the bridge. Some people have walked that bridge to the other side, like the reformed white nationalist that was interviewed by NPR: http://www.npr.org/2017/08/13/543259...harlottesville

    He is the founder of a group called "Life after Hate." Great interview.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    T
    In terms of evil, I remember reading M.Scott Peck's book, The People of the Lie a couple of decades ago and being both disturbed and curious. I had never really explored the concept of evil, but he posed some interesting theories about it. I still don't know exactly where I stand. The Dalai Lama would say the murderous terrorists are "mischeivous"; Thich Nhat Hanh says to acknowledge that we are one with them and to try to understand where they are coming from; and George Bush would call them "evil-doers."
    I also read that book, chilling. It reminded me that although there are some threads of humanity in everyone to also not be too naive about evil. Being naive or too much of a doormat can have devastating consequences.

    I like that you included 2 Buddhists. I have been truly struggling with Christianity the last year and a half. I have previously been very interfaith oriented, and have reached some peace right now. But still, not good feelings. I am all the way up to neutral (not on individuals I know). My mother, a life-long church attending Lutheran has said that it is amazing that anyone approves of Christianity anymore.

    I am no longer participating in the generalized assumption that Christians are good people because of majority or the good people I know. And I am more likely to let my own religion drop into conversation as often as a Christian would drop in that they did something at church or about their religious holidays. I do NOT want any more assumptions that I am Christian. My daughter is dealing with very conservative Christians right now. She just deleted the bible verses that she is being texted. This is the family she is marrying into, although her fiance is not like this.

    Gotta expect me to share too, (smile)

  8. #18
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoe Girl View Post
    I also read that book, chilling. It reminded me that although there are some threads of humanity in everyone to also not be too naive about evil. Being naive or too much of a doormat can have devastating consequences.

    I like that you included 2 Buddhists. I have been truly struggling with Christianity the last year and a half. I have previously been very interfaith oriented, and have reached some peace right now. But still, not good feelings. I am all the way up to neutral (not on individuals I know). My mother, a life-long church attending Lutheran has said that it is amazing that anyone approves of Christianity anymore.
    I agree with you on the caution against being too naive or a doormat. I struggle with that, frankly.

    Regarding the references to two Buddhists, I don't call myself a Buddhist, but I adhere to many of the teachings of TNH in particular. I went to see him in person twice, and both were amazing experiences. I read and re-read many of his books. As far as Christianity goes, I love the "fringe" Christians. If you still have SOME interest in Christian principles, I would recommend you read Richard Rohr, Anthony deMello, Thomas Merton and Dorothy Day. Those are my main Christian inspirations. Spiritually, I am definitely a Buddhist/Christian hybrid. I was raised Catholic, and it's hard to shake ALL of it out of me. I will be Catholic until I die in many ways.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    A lot of perfectly vile human beings cloak themselves in (fundamentalist, usually) religion--often, a refuge of scoundrels, IMO.
    A lot of perfectly vile people cloak themselves in all manner of labels, poses and assumptions. I like what Jonah Goldberg recently wrote on the subject:

    The simple truth is that history isn’t simple: The universe isn’t divided into the Forces of Goodness and the Forces of Evil. That divide runs through every human heart and, therefore, every human institution. Recognizing this fact is the first step toward humility and decency in politics and life. But we live in a tribal moment where people ascribe good and evil to vast swaths of humanity based upon the jerseys they wear. Sometimes, the jerseys do make the case. Wear a Klan hood or a swastika and I will judge the book by the cover. But just because you think you’re morally justified to punch a Nazi, don’t expect me to assume you’re one of the good guys.

    Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/g-file...-right-battles

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    A lot of perfectly vile human beings cloak themselves in (fundamentalist, usually) religion--often, a refuge of scoundrels, IMO.
    I actually got to see this on the way to counter-protesting yesterday - small group in front of the Boston library in Copley Square listening to someone going on about God and sin and primarily about homosexuals - if you remove the "Lord"'s and "God"'s and "Jesus"'s from what he was saying it really wasn't all that different than what the fascists have been saying.

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