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Thread: Now for this I will protest.....

  1. #21
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lainey View Post
    The biggest challenge is the lack of prosecution of employers who hire these people, most of whom turn a blind eye to their status but they remain unafraid of consequences because no one wants to challenge big business.
    I would agree with this completely. SO is an HR director for a mega hotel corp. A couple years ago they purchased a hotel from a much smaller hotel company. When transitioning the employees he had to fire 3/4 of the kitchen staff because their documents were fake. His company is big enough and high profile enough that it would matter if it was in the news that they had undocumented workers. The previous owners of the hotel, not so much.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lainey View Post
    Because these positions need to be filled by professionals, not by an ideologue pandering to the most fearful of our society.

    I'd suggest it happen in the same way that Arizona state judges are selected: they are not elected. Their peers in the legal community nominate them, or you as an attorney can nominate yourself, for an opening. A judicial commission, again comprised of highly knowledgeable and experienced professionals, then forwards names of finalists to the governor for his or her selection. Judges are then appointed, although once in their position, they are then on the ballot for voters to re-appoint them or not.

    AZ Judges do not have to pander to anyone because they do not have to campaign for election or re-election. Using this system has resulted in our state judiciary being composed of very good judges, which of course makes them a target of our Republican legislature because they will not lay down and do their bidding.
    Appointing officials merely involves substituting one type of politics for another and one type of accountability for another.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lainey View Post
    The rise in Arpaio's popularity correlated directly with the beginning of the 2010/2011 recession. Originally Arpaio said he would not use resources to pursue undocumented immigrants who had not committed any crimes but because a scapegoat was needed for the economic downturn and the anti-immigrant voices were so vocal, he quickly realized the popularity of this pursuit.

    And btw, President Obama had the highest number of border guards to date, so the federal government was not "unwilling to act." The biggest challenge is the lack of prosecution of employers who hire these people, most of whom turn a blind eye to their status but they remain unafraid of consequences because no one wants to challenge big business.
    I don't buy the "its the racism, stupid" line of argument. The voters were returning the guy to office long before 2010. They wouldn't be doing so if they were happy with the federal response.

    I do agree that there should be stricter enforcement of checking immigration status at the time of hire. That alone would probably be all the wall we need.
    Last edited by LDAHL; 8-30-17 at 10:10am.

  4. #24
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    I really think that making the immigration process reasonable and easier would be a huge step, but that doesn't seem as popular as other options. My 2 Canadian friends had a huge process to move here even married to US citizens and speaking the language. Especially since people are obviously willing to work!

  5. #25
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Without immigrants, we'd be losing population. Most of our undocumented are hard working people without benefits or protection. I read about an oncology nurse with 20 years of experience--and with children who were born here--deported. So much for only kicking out lawbreakers. We should think about having a robust guest worker program, at the very least. Our current "plan" is cruel and short-sighted.

  6. #26
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    I read about an oncology nurse with 20 years of experience--and with children who were born here--deported. So much for only kicking out lawbreakers.
    I wonder why the nurse didn't go through the legal process to prevent this?

    I recall a member here some years ago was deported from Australia, or maybe it was New Zealand. It seems that lots of countries require immigrants to do it properly.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    So much for only kicking out lawbreakers.
    Isn't anyone here illegally a lawbreaker by definition? Apart from immigration law, living and working here for many years would seem to require an ongoing program of fraud and identity theft.

    I can understand feeling sympathy for a person currently in a bad position due to their earlier choice to come here in contempt of our laws, but at what point should sympathy outweigh the rule of law?

  8. #28
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    The Rule of Law is apparently quite elastic. Just ask "Sheriff Joe."

  9. #29
    Senior Member Tradd's Avatar
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    I agree we need immigration reform badly. I remember reading that back in the 50s there was a guest worker program that many Mexican farm workers used to come and go into the US to work seasonally here. I have no clue if there is anything of that sort in effect now.

    I have no problem with immigrants. It's the illegal part I have issue with. These people are knowingly breaking the law. Why shouldn't they be dealt with? Mexico, for example, probably wouldn't take kindly to folks from the US just crossing their border without the formalities being dealt with. Why should the US be expected to bend get backwards for people here illegally? It's not like they're refugees.

  10. #30
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowerseverywhere View Post
    So how is the situation going? I have been reading a lot about Arpaio and his actions through the years.

    One editorial i read said said it was setting a precedent for Trump to pardon his buddies, family and even himself.

    Some of of the cases I read about include mentally ill people, and many dying in custody.
    Hi, Flowerseverywhere!

    I've been to two protests since the pardon, the first went OK and was mostly peaceful, the second not so great.....the police seemed hell bent on playing to stereotype and things were moving towards escalation but of course all this is on smartphone video. One cop was screaming at a protester to stop the filming and the protestor begged the cop to continue with his illegal behavior so that she'd never have to work again and could devote her life to curbing police power. Another cop swooped in after this young woman's remark and said something to the power tripping cop who turned red and seemed very mad but quickly moved on. I'm guessing the cop was told that there were multiple sources of video and that his behavior was pushing the line and fodder for liberal media outlets, plus potential litigation for lying to young woman in regards to the legality of filming the police to begin with?

    At any rate, right now things are tense but yet strangely subdued in the 85006 - a very heavily Hispanic area for which this pardon was a direct blow to the gut. Hope has arrived in the guise of a judge in Maricopa County raising issues in regards to this pardon - I'm hoping Bae can explain it better than I can, or I can come back later today when I have time to read the story quietly in saner surroundings (am at the Convention Center about to go back to work) and post the contents of the story. Rob

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