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Thread: Social media really can help society.....

  1. #101
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    Are you implying that any officer involved shooting is the result of the police officer "choosing" to shoot and kill someone? If so, I strongly suggest you stop depending upon social media for your 'facts'.


    Much of that void is actually filled with extenuating circumstances, but you'd never see it if you only look at the other side.
    Yes, I do believe that there are police officers who choose to just shoot and kill someone "just because" - both life and my US citizenship have taught me that, as has living in a lower income area. I'm glad I know this, too - this is not knowledge I'd EVER want to trade in - sort of like how when wages were better in America and raises still existed, people would trade in their cars every few years? (at least in better zip codes, anyway) - I'd never want to trade in this knowledge or trade up to something different.

    That said, however, I do believe that those officers engaging in police brutality who choose to shoot and kill just because they can get away with it are in the minority. To be fair, much more common are illegal and unconstitutional beating and attacks. Thank God for smartphone video for getting this out into the court of public opinion so that reality of the police and what they are all about is sifting upwards through the social classes. I also believe the Alex Wubbels arrest - though hardly as brutal an arrest as many others the police are guilty of for no legal reason whatsoever - will help in sifting the reality of what the American police are all about upwards through the social classes. It's not only about time but very much long overdue. Better late than never though, no? Rob

  2. #102
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    Are you implying that any officer involved shooting is the result of the police officer "choosing" to shoot and kill someone? If so, I strongly suggest you stop depending upon social media for your 'facts'.


    Much of that void is actually filled with extenuating circumstances, but you'd never see it if you only look at the other side.
    And the extenuating circumstances in the Alex Wubbels arrest again were? (Just to mention one high profile recent example....many others regarding police brutality are available for your examination, too.....) no shortage of such material, we have to give the American police that much to be fair, no? Rob

  3. #103
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife View Post
    Yes, I do believe that there are police officers who choose to just shoot and kill someone "just because" - both life and my US citizenship have taught me that, ...
    How many such police officers are there?

    There are on the order of 1 million full-time & part-time sworn officers (~800k in 2008). I'm sure that out of a population of roughly a million there are a couple of psychopaths and serial killers.

    But how common is this? If one member of a population exhibits a trait, do all members of the population have that trait?

    John Wayne Gayce was a gay, pedophile, serial killer, who tortured and killed 30+ people.

    Are all homosexuals serial killers, or pedophiles? Should we treat them as such, until proven otherwise?

    I think he worked in food service for a while too.... As a manager.....

  4. #104
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife View Post
    And the extenuating circumstances in the Alex Wubbels arrest again were?
    Did they shoot and kill Wubbels? I missed that video.

  5. #105
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife View Post
    And the extenuating circumstances in the Alex Wubbels arrest again were?
    That was just stupid, although there are extenuating circumstances. Have you ever heard of Implied Consent and the recent changes to the pretty much universal implied consent law? When I was involved in active policing the premise of Implied Consent enabled police to take breath or blood or urine samples from an unconscious driver. It is also Implied Consent which enables the state to revoke a drivers license from a conscious driver suspected of driving under the influence if that driver refuses to consent to breath/blood/urine testing. In this case I was actually surprised to hear that the Supreme Court ruled that blood samples would no longer be covered under the Implied Consent Law as of just last year.

    Another extenuating circumstance is that the police officer in question is also a trained phlebotomist, which is why he was chosen for the detail. He went to the hospital to take the blood himself, not to demand the nurse do so. Whether right or wrong, the fact that she refused access to the patient could be seen as an obstruction of justice.

    There may be others but I'm not aware of what they may be, that's where the court system comes into play. The court of public opinion isn't informed enough to enforce the retaliation you'd like to see.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  6. #106
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    There is good news about Detective Jeff Payne of the Salt Lake City PD! I wanted to post this before going off with my husband to have a few drinks and carne asada with neighbors to celebrate the good news.....He was fired! Not from the PD, but from his other P/T job as an ambulance driver, for threatening to take only homeless people to the hospital Alex Wubbels works at after having been given flack for his illegal and unconstitutional actions. It's not the great ending we of the 85006 are fighting for - but it is progress and warrants fellowship and a shot or two of Presidente to celebrate.

    So nice to finally post something heart warming and positive about this evil and sordid story. Rob

  7. #107
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife View Post
    He was fired! Not from the PD, but from his other P/T job as an ambulance driver, for threatening to take only homeless people to the hospital Alex Wubbels works at after having been given flack for his illegal and unconstitutional actions.
    Illegal and unconstitutional - I don't have enough facts in front of me to judge, I see so many conflicting accounts on media. Certainly in this state a police officer couldn't *order* me to perform a medical procedure on a patient without patient consent, and against the protocols of my medical director. An officer *could* demand access to the patient in some circumstances, but it isn't clear from the accounts that those circumstances were in play.

    However, as an "ambulance driver" (which is a derogatory term that is triggering, and only people within a certain culture can use it without offense, which I'll forgive you for as you don't even understand your privilege yet...) interfering with patient care by choosing destinations to "punish" an institution, which is what you claim he did, is beyond simply wrong. We deliver patients to the fastest-reachable higher-level-of-care facility that can receive them, by the most practical means, every time. It's sort of the law....

  8. #108
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    He went to the hospital to take the blood himself, not to demand the nurse do so. Whether right or wrong, the fact that she refused access to the patient could be seen as an obstruction of justice.
    That would depend on specific details that I haven't seen in media accounts. Once a patient is in my care, I have certain legal duties towards them. Which include protecting them from inappropriate attentions of others. There are situations in which I would be required to ignore a law enforcement officer's demands, and perhaps even to resist them.

    This of course would not end well for anyone involved, in the short term or the long term. Which is why we encourage an atmosphere of inter-agency cooperation and understanding.

    The details, of course, don't fit in a tweet.

  9. #109
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    That was just stupid, although there are extenuating circumstances. Have you ever heard of Implied Consent and the recent changes to the pretty much universal implied consent law? When I was involved in active policing the premise of Implied Consent enabled police to take breath or blood or urine samples from an unconscious driver. It is also Implied Consent which enables the state to revoke a drivers license from a conscious driver suspected of driving under the influence if that driver refuses to consent to breath/blood/urine testing. In this case I was actually surprised to hear that the Supreme Court ruled that blood samples would no longer be covered under the Implied Consent Law as of just last year.

    Another extenuating circumstance is that the police officer in question is also a trained phlebotomist, which is why he was chosen for the detail. He went to the hospital to take the blood himself, not to demand the nurse do so. Whether right or wrong, the fact that she refused access to the patient could be seen as an obstruction of justice.

    There may be others but I'm not aware of what they may be, that's where the court system comes into play. The court of public opinion isn't informed enough to enforce the retaliation you'd like to see.
    Implied consent would only apply if the driver of the truck had been suspected of driving under the influence. In this case the driver was only in an accident when the other driver swerved into oncoming traffic and caused the accident. The truck driver whose blood the cop wanted was not suspected of any wrongdoing.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife View Post
    So nice to finally post something heart warming and positive about this evil and sordid story. Rob

    Never watched Bambi as a child? Too traumatic for an eight year old?

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