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Thread: Social media really can help society.....

  1. #51
    Senior Member SteveinMN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife View Post
    The take from the 85006 on this one is that they need to get a grasp of the volume of hatred, fear, terror, disgust, and non-compliance going forward that their despicable actions generate. The phone calls of course will change nothing in and of themselves.....it's just a tool for them to get a sense of the intense level of public hatred and disgust that they have earned.
    Rob, I'm a man of science. I like to see confirmations of ideas. That's how you know what's true and what's not.

    Do you have any statistics that support your implication that you speak for all of "the 85006"? Do you and your colleagues know if the clerks receiving your tree's phone calls actually pass on more than a scribbled number of how many of you called that day? Or if are they including on their message pads terms you're using here, like "hatred", "disgust", and "despicable"?


    For a membe of a minority group which frequently is maligned broadly and prejudicially, you paint with a broad brush. If you went to work each morning not being sure when you'd come home -- or if you'd come home; if you knew your day could include walking up to a vehicle with heavily-tinted windows but not knowing if the person behind that window had one of those weapons that's all the rage these days; if you had to be the man or woman whose job included dealing with someone strung out on angel dust or a baby dying in front of you after an accident, well, maybe there would be a different perspective on why officers sometimes act against type, revert to more primal behaviors, and sometimes make poor decisions.

    We should expect a lot from our LEOs. We give them a lot of power. But LEOs are human. And, like waiters, gays, or people who live in the American Southwest, we should realize that some bad apples don't spoil the entire bushel.

    Should LEOs be screened in hiring to the best of our abilities? Of course. Should LEOs be supported by training and simulation and information and enough time away from the job to stay alert and mentally fit? Certainly. Should officers who display poor judgment be identified and the transgressions evaluated and addressed -- and some of them be relieved of their badge and gun? Without question.

    Should there be rules that require the presence and use of body cameras on LEOs? As long as there's enough he-said-she-said to warrant it, yes. Should there be a demilitarization of police forces? I think, as a citizen, it's easier to form some sort of bond with someone when there isn't an armored personnel carrier between the two individuals.

    But will haranguing some desk sargeants daily over the phone change all that? Not at all. Will displaying video on social media accomplish that? Look at the cr@p that was posted on social media during the last Presidential election and ask what effects it had on voters. For every nurse in Salt Lake City, there's a pizzeria in Washington that's fronting illegal activity (not). Nothing on social media should be accepted at face value when people's lives are at stake.

    Quote Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife View Post
    Perhaps the next officer will realize that likely he or she is being recorded and that whoever they are victimizing/going off on/displaying the truth about American police to will only be too happy to go to the media with their video/footage/recordings
    Anyone in modern American society knows there are cameras everywhere. Smartphone cameras, surveillance cameras, body cameras,... There is nothing you can do in public that cannot be reported on, whether it's picking your nose in your car, shoplifting, planting evidence for a fake drug bust, or firing at someone you think is reaching for a gun.

    In the quickly-developing highly-charged situations in which LEOs find themselves, no officer who thinks (s)he sees a gun in the hands of a suspect is going to spend one millisecond wondering if a camera somewhere will vindicate what (s)he does next. Similarly, I'm sure that officer in Salt Lake City didn't spend a single brain cycle thinking, "Oh, better rein it in. If I go off on this nurse, it's gonna cost the city/county/state a bundle."

    Look, I'm not excusing whatever officers do. But to cast every LEO in the U.S. as an agent of fear and terror? I'm not sure what you and your colleagues are trying to accomplish. But I think it's misguided and serving more as a release of your frustration than a sponsor to actual reform. And I think it unfairly stigmatizes tens of thousands of people in a way that I think you yourself would find inaccurate and ineffective -- and repulsive.
    If Americans expended even a fraction of the energy on civic engagement that we spend on consumer ideology, our democracy would be much healthier. Can you imagine people camping out to vote? -- Charles Roberts, Amherst, Mass., Nov. 25, 2006

  2. #52
    Senior Member flowerseverywhere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife View Post
    The take from the 85006 on this one is that they need to get a grasp of the volume of hatred, fear, terror, disgust, and non-compliance going forward that their despicable actions generate. The phone calls of course will change nothing in and of themselves.....it's just a tool for them to get a sense of the intense level of public hatred and disgust that they have earned. And in this particular case I see it as positive reinforcement as in the case of Cobb County, Georgia, they did something right. Perhaps the next officer will realize that likely he or she is being recorded and that whoever they are victimizing/going off on/displaying the truth about American police to will only be too happy to go to the media with their video/footage/recordings.....to not go to the media with such at this point is to be just as guilty as the police are...who would want to live with that at this point? Rob
    nothing you are doing will change anything. You and your neighbors should be trying to get as many people as you can to train and qualify to be police officers. I am not kidding here. Turn things around from being troublemakers to problem solvers

  3. #53
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowerseverywhere View Post
    nothing you are doing will change anything. You and your neighbors should be trying to get as many people as you can to train and qualify to be police officers. I am not kidding here. Turn things around from being troublemakers to problem solvers
    Flowerseverywhere, I am not entirely against your post.....though I don't personally believe it would help matters much if some neighborhood folks got into the police academy, passed, and became officers. The reason why I feel this is due to cop culture, which I perceive to be one of the greatest problems with the police in general. A culture that allows officer abuse of the general public and one in which officers will cover for each other as they break the law. This has been going on for years - all that is different now is the proliferation of video and the general willingness of the public to stand up against this evil for top dollar and to download this evil to the Internet so that the world learns some home truths about America. Why do you think the police hate video so much? It's because video often shows them for exactly what they are!

    Getting back to your post, though, before I get too sidetracked - getting a few good men and women from the 85006 - or any other challenged zip code - is not going to help matters. What we really need is an overhaul of the police and more powers against them - such concepts as instant termination, busting up their unions (and I happen to be a big believer in unions but NOT IN THIS CASE!!!!!) and instant pension loss polices with pension payments going towards victims within a period of less than two weeks.....real change and real human rights are what is needed. What we have now is unsustainable in the sense that more and more people are waking up to what the police are truly all about and what I have known about them for years. One thing that makes me proud to live in the 85006 about is that if a cop car arrives in this area, people pretty much automatically suspect the police of doing wrong and film without any questions being asked to protect themselves from what the police truly are. This is how much trust officers enjoy in my neighborhood - and I can tell you that the police in Phoenix, though no angels, are not as bad as cops in LA or Albuquerque or Seattle....there have been fewer lawsuits per capita against the Phoenix Police than against the police in other large US cities. Still, the trust does not exist and in the current format of law enforcement, trust is absolutely impossible. Just not going to happen.

    Going back to your post - we need to change cop culture somehow, and at least where I live we teach folks to film and download as an eventual vehicle towards change. Parents in my zip code are teaching their young kids to distrust the police and to film them too, and (usually) the police know better than to hassle young kids filming them as the backlash towards any issues the police create with young kids is not something they can realistically recover from and the lawsuit settlements will be even higher if children are involved, plus the hatred of the general public towards them will only increase. But at least here in the 85006 almost all of us are united in a firm anti-police stance and the police know this going into this neighborhood - that they are at risk here. Not of death or injury or assault - but of litigation and eventual job loss and of people's distrust and non-violent refusal to cooperate. You can't treat lower income people the way American police have and not expect them to retaliate in some way - and current technology allows lower income folks to retaliate in non-violent ways, plus allows lower income people to display to the world the truth of America. I'd be afraid to be a cop these days, personally, because the era of their getting away with anything with no questions asked is about over. Good riddance. Rob
    Last edited by gimmethesimplelife; 9-3-17 at 8:57am.

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    One thing social media seems to be good at is confirming biases. You can quickly scour a huge country for anecdotes and multi-level hearsay that gives you the brittle illusion of having been right all along. No school of thought, no matter how tiny or ludicrous, will lack for fellow believers if you can quickly connect all the dark corners of a diverse culture. You can easily find a "community" of people who will agree with you that jihad is God's will, that the white race is embattled on all sides by its enemies or that the police are hunting people for sport. Flooding the digital world with nonsense and lies has become a profession.

    The best defense is critical thinking; but if we reach the point where everyone is entitled to his own reality, the daft will inherit the world.

  5. #55
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Some good news! I just read online that the infamous Salt Lake City police officer may face criminal charges for his behavior. I'm so hoping he does as when he's let off and faces no consequences for his behavior, just imagine how many more Americans will wake up and see the police and the system for what it truly is, and just imagine how much more resistance everyday people will put up against the police as this case has become one of national disgust, terror and fear.....to let this officer off facing no consequences will truly show so many people, and the world beyond US borders, what America is truly all about. I can't wait! This is a chance for a public outcry from what's left of the middle class and those above to maybe make some kind of change happen, and will definitely assist in more and more people deeply distrusting the system and this country in general.

    I bet this one isolated officer had no real idea that he could serve as an ignition device to a powder keg! He must be beyond amazed! With any luck, as I said, this officer will be let off facing no consequences....this would truly be the best outcome as it is an outcome that would provoke fury from quarters that have not expressed much fury to date......let's hope for the best, thinking of course always for the best long term outcome. Rob

  6. #56
    Senior Member flowerseverywhere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife View Post
    Flowerseverywhere, I am not entirely against your post.....though I don't personally believe it would help matters much if some neighborhood folks got into the police academy, passed, and became officers. The reason why I feel this is due to cop culture, which I perceive to be one of the greatest problems with the police in general. A culture that allows officer abuse of the general public and one in which officers will cover for each other as they break the law.

    One thing that makes me proud to live in the 85006 about is that if a cop car arrives in this area, people pretty much automatically suspect the police of doing wrong and film without any questions being asked to protect themselves from what the police truly are.

    Rob
    i edited to respond to two of your statements

    on the first, why would folks from your neighborhood get sucked into the police culture? It makes no sense to me. why would someone change suddenly from an innocent victim to an evil abuser? Would they not expose wrongdoing instead of joining in?

    On on the second, why is your neighborhoods perception that a police officer is automatically guilty of wrongdoing any different from Arpaio's perception of racial Profiling? Maybe Arpaio's experience is based on his historical dealings. Maybe once he has seen one too many illegal criminal he will never trust any Hispanic and automatically presume they are a criminal? He can't unsee what he has seen either.

  7. #57
    Senior Member SteveinMN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowerseverywhere View Post
    On on the second, why is your neighborhoods perception that a police officer is automatically guilty of wrongdoing any different from Arpaio's perception of racial Profiling?
    flowers, on reading the quote in Rob's post which you're referring to, I wondered the same thing.

    Change one word in the quote and...
    we need to change Muslim culture somehow, and at least where I live we teach folks to film and download as an eventual vehicle towards change. Parents in my zip code are teaching their young kids to distrust Muslims and to film them too, and (usually) Muslims know better than to hassle young kids filming them as the backlash towards any issues Muslims create with young kids is not something they can realistically recover from and the lawsuit settlements will be even higher if children are involved, plus the hatred of the general public towards them will only increase. But at least here in the 85006 almost all of us are united in a firm anti-Muslim stance and the Muslims know this going into this neighborhood - that they are at risk here.
    I'm not at all trying to be incendiary. The changed word could be "Muslim"; it could be "Latinx"; it could be "women"; it could be "LBGTQ"; it could be "Tesla drivers".

    Whatever the word, the quote employs a level of prejudgement fully on par with bigoted (and convicted) Joe Arpaio. And I don't believe the tactic does a d--n thing to bridge the perceived gap between "sides" (did it work for Arpaio and the force he supervised?). If that's the only way Rob and his compatriots think "us versus them" gets fixed, I wish them luck.
    If Americans expended even a fraction of the energy on civic engagement that we spend on consumer ideology, our democracy would be much healthier. Can you imagine people camping out to vote? -- Charles Roberts, Amherst, Mass., Nov. 25, 2006

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    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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  9. #59
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveinMN View Post
    flowers, on reading the quote in Rob's post which you're referring to, I wondered the same thing.

    Change one word in the quote and...


    I'm not at all trying to be incendiary. The changed word could be "Muslim"; it could be "Latinx"; it could be "women"; it could be "LBGTQ"; it could be "Tesla drivers".

    Whatever the word, the quote employs a level of prejudgement fully on par with bigoted (and convicted) Joe Arpaio. And I don't believe the tactic does a d--n thing to bridge the perceived gap between "sides" (did it work for Arpaio and the force he supervised?). If that's the only way Rob and his compatriots think "us versus them" gets fixed, I wish them luck.
    Hi SteveinMN!

    I've been thinking about your post here for part of this afternoon and two things come to mind for me. The first is that I am a little surprised you posted this in the sense that you list your location as St. Paul, MN - in the midst of the Twin Cities Metro Area. I don't understand why but Minneapolis/St. Paul has a great quality of life BUT for the past few years has had, and I'm sure you are aware of this, more than it's share of police officers engaging in less than commendable actions and there have been killings - the latest high profile case was the 40 year old Australian national killed by an Officer Noor of the Minneapolis PD.....I would imagine (?) that Twin Cities folks might be more in the mood to seriously question their police departments. I for myself engaged in long distance activism against the Edina, MN police department not too long ago for their harrassment of an African American man committing no crime other than walking down a street in an upscale white suburb and I actually was able to get ahold of a city council member and chew them out for allowing such to take place. At any rate, not living in your area (to be fair) I'm wondering what the climate is like there as to distrust of the police overall? The Twin Cities the past few years have been near the forefront of cases as to why it's wisest not to trust the police, KWIM?

    That all said, about the paragraph above replacing the word "Muslim" for police - THE BIG GLARING PROBLEM WITH THIS (capitalized not out of disrespect but to call attention to my point and I do tend to be long-winded, no?) is that the police (let's go back to this word again, please) are supposed to be public employees doing some good and not causing innocent citizens fear and terror. They are not supposed to kill us for flimsy reasons or no reasons at all - or am I missing something - did I sleep in late one day and not get a memo (no sarcasm intended here, I know this sounds a bit sarcastic and you have always been decent to me Steve so I don't mean it this way) - would you not agree that there has been a proliferation of cases of police shootings of a highly questionable nature the past few years, in the Twin Cities and otherwise? Furthermore, the police often suffer no consequences for killing for flimsy reasons or no reasons whatsoever, which to me at least completely negates both your point and the original point of TooMuchStuff. I don't see your points as equal to my point here in the slightest - not that you both can't get points across and not that you both are not articulate people - for me it's the acceptance you both display of the police killing people for flimsy or non-existent reasons. This fact elevates the issues with the police to an entirely different plane. And of course makes it impossible to trust them. At any rate, SteveinMN, please stay safe from your police! I would be afraid to set foot in the Twin Cities now until such a date as changes are made to police departments there and I don't mean this as an insult in any way - I would seriously have some concern for my physical safety and general well being given the recent issues with Twin Cities police in more than one Twin Cities Metro Area municipality.

    I hope I've made myself clear? None of this was meant to bash you or the Twin Cities, I hope you understand that. It's too bad I am afraid to set foot there - I've always wanted to see the outside of the house in Kenwood that was used for outside shots during the theme song of the Mary Tyler Moore Show years ago, and I've always wanted to see the Cherry With Spoon Sculpture at the Walker Museum of Art. Afraid to at the moment even if I could afford to do so. Rob

    PS I've always wanted to visit Minnehaha (sp?) Falls, too, and also see the statue of Mary Tyler Moore downtown on Nicolett (sp?) I think it is? Never been to Minneapolis other than the airport, btw, I only know of these places from dating a guy from Minneapolis some time ago.

  10. #60
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    I just got back from a medical/rescue call to a home about a 3 minute walk from my front door.

    I arrived first. The next person through the door was our new Sheriff's deputy, who had been driving nearby when he heard the traffic on our fire/medical/rescue radio frequency. He doesn't have to listen to that channel, but like a good neighbor, he does. He also had proper gloves and such to assist safely.

    Together he and I solved the problem before the ambulance and medic managed to arrive on scene.

    I'd not met him before, but I was sure glad to see his face - he helped the patient avoid considerable pain and perhaps lasting damage.

    I'm glad I talked to him, instead of whipping out a cell phone and calling my lawyer.

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