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Thread: Social media really can help society.....

  1. #71
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    Most people instinctively point fingers in the proper direction. I think you need a new compass.
    I will agree to disagree with you once again then. Happy Labor Day. Rob

  2. #72
    Senior Member SteveinMN's Avatar
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    Rob, I'm glad you recognize that, far more often than not, I've been in your corner on social and political issues. I just see a different picture here.

    Of course people in the Twin Cities are aware of the Damond and Castile incidents, among others.

    You are aware, I hope (this is background for others), that the officer that shot Philando Castile was tried in court and acquitted; investigation continues in the Damond incident. The officer in the Castile shooting was released from the police department in which he served and the incident pushed the city in which the shooting occurred to contract for police services with an entirely different police department. In addition, the city settled with Castile's family for about three million dollars in damages.

    In the Damond case, the officer will remain on leave until an investigation for trial is complete, which, according to an article in the local paper in the last couple of weeks, likely will be by the end of the year. Partly because of her handling of this incident, the Minneapolis Chief of Police resigned. Both shootings and the outcome of the Yanez trial (Castile) sponsored demonstrations around The Cities. No one here -- white or otherwise -- has swept either incident under the rug.

    At the same time, however, I'm not aware of any extraordinary reaction making people here any more reluctant to call police than they were before. Hundreds of officers have encounters with thousands of people every day here and even the more-sensational (but still credible) news and opinion sources here are not fear-mongering or urging people not to call police when needed.

    Yes, there's a problem, here and elsewhere. The Castile and Damond shootings are incidents in which "normal" encounters with police officers suddenly turned tragic. They should never have happened. Yanez' acquittal surprised me, but I was not privy to all of the evidence presented at the trial. I have to remain open to the jury having heard testimony that was not public beyond the Facebook stream Castile's girlfriend provided. There's not much information about the Damond case yet, but they're still gathering what they can.

    My point is twofold: While these incidents (as well as the one with the Edina man you mentioned) are terrible and, in my opinion, reflective of much deeper issues within the environment in which we expect LEOs to work, they are three incidents among tens of thousands over the years. Even if they represent more less- or un-reported incidents (which I think is likely), that still makes those negative interactions a small percentage of the overall number of exchanges that citizens experience with LEOs here. As I wrote earlier, to refuse to set foot in Minneapolis or Saint Paul because of these incidents -- considering even a "liberal" addition to the percentages of how often such problems occur -- is like never flying because planes sometimes crash. I find your reaction of outright terror at the thought of encountering a LEO extreme.

    In addition, I believe there are root causes to these situations. I find it interesting that in both of these cases, the officers are members of minorities themselves, so it does not seem Arpaio-esque bigotry is at play here. Something else is going on. Is it training? Is it the environment? Are the wrong people being hired? Identifying and addressing those causes, I believe, is far more helpful to the cause than calling someone at a police station and complaining.

    IMHO (and, again, based on what I know of the situation), Yanez escalated the situation. Castile told Yanez he was carrying and had the right permit. Perhaps Yanez needed more training in de-escalating situations. Perhaps there needs to be new rules on how to ask someone carrying a gun to present their license and registration; Castile is not the first person in American history to be carrying a gun and a wallet. In the Damond case, the officer claimed he heard a noise at the same time Damond appeared by the squad car in a dark alley -- and fired. Across his partner's body and out a window. Pretty much anyone with a lick of sense could tell you that situation could have been far worse had his partner moved forward or more people were outside the car. Why did he do that? Inexperience (he was the experienced officer in the vehicle)? Fear (that part of South Minneapolis is not a "bad" neighborhood)? Hatred (unlikely, IMHO)? The sargeant answering the phone in that precinct changes none of those root issues on his/her own.

    I also will note that, beyond job loss and civil monetary settlements, both of these officers, regardless of court outcomes, will live the rest of their lives knowing they killed someone. Maybe it's just me but I don't think killing someone leaves the killer unaffected unless they're a real sociopath/mentally ill. That does not appear to be the case for either officer here.

    Rob, I'm not telling you to quit following your conscience here. I just think you're overreacting and that your remedy is of questionable value. That fear/outrage/energy can be turned in a direction that is more likely to give you the results you (in fact, all of us) seek.
    If Americans expended even a fraction of the energy on civic engagement that we spend on consumer ideology, our democracy would be much healthier. Can you imagine people camping out to vote? -- Charles Roberts, Amherst, Mass., Nov. 25, 2006

  3. #73
    Senior Member razz's Avatar
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    If one gets fear-mongering running out of control, please bear in mind that a number of people in Canada are refusing to cross the border into the US due to the number of legally held guns held by the general public in the US. I shake my head and keep quiet as fear-mongering is not rational thinking. If someone is that fearful, travelling is not fun anyway.

    While I am quite willing to visit the US, driving there on the expressways scares me. The busiest road in North America is the 401 through Toronto http://https://oppositelock.kinja.co...ica-1559577839. I do drive on it but avoid as much as possible. The speed is usually around 110-120km or 70-75mph. Some expressways in the US appear to have cars travelling at much higher speeds or far more erratically. I have no confidence in driving there as a result. My fears impacting my decisions.
    Gandhi: Happiness is when what you think, what you say and what you do are in harmony .

  4. #74
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    oh hell, I would buy that thing to record conversations in my marriage. " you said blah blah blah" " no I did not!" "Yes you did!" Is a dialog we have far too often.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by razz View Post
    If one gets fear-mongering running out of control, please bear in mind that a number of people in Canada are refusing to cross the border into the US due to the number of legally held guns held by the general public in the US. I shake my head and keep quiet as fear-mongering is not rational thinking. If someone is that fearful, travelling is not fun anyway.

    While I am quite willing to visit the US, driving there on the expressways scares me. The busiest road in North America is the 401 through Toronto http://https://oppositelock.kinja.co...ica-1559577839. I do drive on it but avoid as much as possible. The speed is usually around 110-120km or 70-75mph. Some expressways in the US appear to have cars travelling at much higher speeds or far more erratically. I have no confidence in driving there as a result. My fears impacting my decisions.
    If I were them, I'd be more worried by the illegally held guns. It's funny how much trouble people have assessing risk. Sharks get a whole week on the Discovery Channel, but more people are killed by bees, cows and hippopotami.

    My understanding was that more people are killed by automobiles than guns in the US, even including the gun deaths by suicide, so your concern would seem to be more rational than theirs. I don't know what the odds are of being shot by rampaging policemen.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    oh hell, I would buy that thing to record conversations in my marriage. " you said blah blah blah" " no I did not!" "Yes you did!" Is a dialog we have far too often.
    I can't help but think that would be counter-productive for domestic tranquility.

    To keep your marriage flowing,
    With love from the loving cup.
    Whenever you're wrong, admit it.
    Whenever you're right, shut up.

    - Ogden Nash

  7. #77
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    I can't help but think that would be counter-productive for domestic tranquility.

    To keep your marriage flowing,
    With love from the loving cup.
    Whenever you're wrong, admit it.
    Whenever you're right, shut up.

    - Ogden Nash
    yes, you are right which is probably why I havent invested in The Marriage
    Tape Recorder that I keep telling DH I need.

  8. #78
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    Rob, I think it is terrible that people are moving to a place and hoping to be a victim so they can win a lawsuit. I have agreed with you in the past but I do not understand this. IL, my DH and I go round and round about what was said too as we get older)

  9. #79
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teacher Terry View Post
    Rob, I think it is terrible that people are moving to a place and hoping to be a victim so they can win a lawsuit. I have agreed with you in the past but I do not understand this. IL, my DH and I go round and round about what was said too as we get older)
    Hi TT!

    Just to be clear, I understand people moving to Nogales, Arizona for this - but I don't exactly approve of it, either. Let's just say I have no intention personally of packing my bags and renting a UHaul and following these folks down there.....I get it but I don't wish to be part of this insanity, either. Rob

  10. #80
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    Glad you don't approve either) Wis also has a lower cost of living but is not so conservative.

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