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Thread: Introversion or something else?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultralight View Post
    Why would these men go MGTOW?

    I've been trying to figure out what does MGTOW mean? Because if it means what I think it means, aren't you being redundantly redundant?

  2. #22
    Senior Member razz's Avatar
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    TMS, Gimmee's post explained MGTOW is what such young men go by - it means Men Going Their Own Way.

    Gella, I have a couple that I am friends with who have a son that does not participate in life but is very busy in their home. If they were not able to support him on their joint pensions, I wonder what the alternative might be. He enables them to travel freely as he minds the house and does the cleaning etc. Never had a girlfriend that my friends have mentioned and he would be about 40ish. I have never seen or met him.
    Parents enable dependent adult children because they are enabled in some way as well. When the benefits no longer equal the obligations or liabilities, changes are made.

    This morning, I met a long-term friend on my walk who I asked about the Millenial approach for the male. She said that one young man who graduated in 'risk management' has easily obtained employment using online contacts alone but he has a full social life with a wife and child.

    I asked her thoughts about a 30ish young male relative who didn't socialize at all and spent all his time in his room when in someone else's home. She, with some background in law enforcement, cautioned:
    - what is the legal liability of any inappropriate use of the internet of which the homeowner is unaware? Can this be managed?
    - how will an unwanted guest be removed?
    - are the parents of the relative hoping that the homeowners will assume responsibility for the future of the young man? How is that being managed?

    Personally I don't think it is a Millenial or an introvert issue. Years ago, no one was allowed to withdraw because if one didn't work or participate, one didn't get fed with food in short supply. Parents now have more money to enable dependent adult children. I have read where the withdrawing or other child who didn't inherit had a position purchased in the military or clergy where they could hide for their whole life if so desired. Consequences were often not positive for any.
    Some thoughts to consider.
    Gandhi: Happiness is when what you think, what you say and what you do are in harmony .

  3. #23
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    My neighbor has a 40-something son who lives with her. He has at least some college and a more than adequate job. I imagine he pays rent and I know he does work around the house. It seems to work well for them.

  4. #24
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    To razz's point: yep, once that guy is in your house you may have trouble legally booting him if it comes to that. The way to address that is to get him to sign a lease. Arent you, the OP, in California?

    Oy vey, that is the land where tenants squat forever.

    This young man may be depressed, he may be an immature introvert, he may be other things. But clearly, his parents cannot deal with his (what was once called ) "laziness" and have tried a new plan using you, the OP. Protect yourself, set boundaries.

    This would not be IN PLACE OF helping him navigate mental health services but would be in addition to that.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Geila's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveinMN View Post
    I like that, Chicken lady!

    In DH's defense, I've seen several companies which interview for positions which will be funded in their new fiscal year (January). That easily could happen in the first couple of weeks of December. After that, though, the logistics of holiday events, people taking time off (at my day job we had to use our vacation by year end or lose it), and year-end activities (closing the books, etc.), pretty much do in any serious job-hunting efforts. My sense, though, is that it won't make a practical difference if Nephew is simply enjoying (?) a three-month-long vacation.

    As for letting Nephew stay with you once/if he gets a job, I would stop entertaining that thought. If he needs a grubstake, his parents should be providing it, not you and DH. This young man sounds like he's going to have a crashing introduction into Real Life. And when he loses the new job because he can't be arsed to show up on time or do anything useful while he's there, where will he end up? There's no reason you need to be there to help clean up any more than you have. You've done your bit.
    +2 Chicken Lady! Love it. And don't doubt for a second that I didn't consider it!

    The thing is, he has a Bachelor's in Information Technology and a Masters in Computer Science and we live in Silicon Valley. There are lots of jobs here for someone with that background. But the fact that he did no job searching before his arrival, did no job searching his first week here (claimed he was waiting to see if he liked it here), and has since made no mention of actual job hunting at all leads me to believe that he's not working all that hard to find a job. He's been here almost 3 weeks without so much as a peep about actual jobs he's pursuing.

    Dh is thinking that he was getting pressured at home to find a job and came out here to coast for a while.

    On Monday Dh took him walking to the shopping center nearby so he could see where everything was. I had previously driven by and shown him where everything was and how close it is. When they got home he said the stores were 'far' and wasn't enthused about walking there. The shopping center is less than 1/4 of a mile. The little old lady down the street walks there everyday to do shopping for her family. She must be at least 80 years old, she's all hunched over, but she pulls her little rolling shopping cart with her and several times a week lugs home one of those big jugs of water. But it's too far for this healthy, able bodied, 30 year old man.

  6. #26
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    Sorry that you have gotten into this situation. It would make me uncomfortable to have someone in the house never leaving the room. Knowing this I probably would not have let him come in the first place but I realize you guys were trying to be helpful. No way would I let any of my 3 boys or 2 step-sons do this.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Geila's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    I am not sure if his "developmental issues" are a product of nature or nurture. His mother certainly enabled his Peter Pan existence. But even she said that while he's perfectly normal in so many respects, there's just something "off." He's very funny and can carry a conversation, but sometimes he just makes little sense. He'll go off on tangents or indulge on these projected scenarios that are not guaranteed to happen at all, creating a LOT of anxiety for him. He'll construct entire scenes in his head, with full-blown dialogue of what he "knows" is going to happen (usually a negative outcome). I'll challenge him and say, "How do you KNOW that? That's only ONE thing that might happen." It's very aggravating, and it definitely keeps him stuck in life, because he always bets on things happening for the worst.

    But right now I'm aggravated with him, and I feel your pain, because last spring BIL came to me practically catatonic with fear and anxiety that he couldn't pay the property taxes on the house, and he was afraid the IRS was going to take it (there is NO connection there--he doesn't have any liens on the property) or he would run out of money completely, or whatever. So I said, "I'll pay the property taxes and deduct it from your share of the house when it sells." That gave him a lot of relief.

    Yesterday he comes in and he had a brand new haircut and highlights. I complimented him on it and asked where he had it done. He had it done at a very tony spa in Princeton where I USED to go years ago when I was more liberal with my spending, but now can't afford it, even though I make about 10 times more than he does. A cut and color costs a woman $360.00, but for him it's probably less. BUT STILL!!!

    When he said that, I felt the same way I did just after I had paid his property taxes (he was a year delinquent) after his melt-down. Two days later, I found out he had donated $300 to a friend on a GoFundMe account for her sick mother.

    When I asked him about it, he puffed himself up and said "Well, I felt bad and figured if I can afford it...." My immediate reaction was, "But you CAN'T afford it! That's why I'm paying your [darned] property taxes!!" I heard his mother in his speech and intonation. She was generous, but she only gave when she could actually afford it.

    I'm looking forward to this house getting off our hands (now the closing is October 10) and cutting ties financially.

    Sorry for long response to your question!
    Now I'm feeling your pain! Wow.

    I've joked many times that some people don't know how to be poor. We have a friend who has been underemployed for decades and is always on the cusp of financial disaster and his mother always bails him out. He's in his 50's. He'll be lamenting that he might lose his insurance because he can't afford to make his premium that month (he's self-employed). A week later he will be talking about going to Hawaii with his GF for 10 days. I think these people have learned that playing the victim gets them what they want and have no qualms about doing it even if it hurts others.

    Catherine - I would have been tempted to rip those highlighted locks right out of his head! You're a saint to put up with him. Maybe slap him around a little bit? I bet you'd feel better.

  8. #28
    Senior Member SteveinMN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geila View Post
    +2 Chicken Lady! Love it. And don't doubt for a second that I didn't consider it!

    The thing is, he has a Bachelor's in Information Technology and a Masters in Computer Science and we live in Silicon Valley. There are lots of jobs here for someone with that background. But the fact that he did no job searching before his arrival, did no job searching his first week here (claimed he was waiting to see if he liked it here), and has since made no mention of actual job hunting at all leads me to believe that he's not working all that hard to find a job. He's been here almost 3 weeks without so much as a peep about actual jobs he's pursuing.
    So unless he's not looking or gives off a bad vibe in interviews, this guy is hireable.

    If Nephew were my houseguest I think I'd be looking at some tough love. razz makes some very good points about your possible liability here. And I would be doing some contingency planning to make sure Nephew is out of your house by the time your decided deadline arrives. I'd say you should re-key the locks -- but if he doesn't leave the house, that would make no difference.
    If Americans expended even a fraction of the energy on civic engagement that we spend on consumer ideology, our democracy would be much healthier. Can you imagine people camping out to vote? -- Charles Roberts, Amherst, Mass., Nov. 25, 2006

  9. #29
    Senior Member Geila's Avatar
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    Yes, razz made some excellent points and I was starting to feel a bit concerned about that. But here is some great news...

    The nephew has left the building!!! As in, he has left to stay somewhere else.

    A few hours after I asked him to clean the bathroom he informed us that he had made plans to stay with friends of his parents who live in the area. It seems that the double whammy of being told that he would have to leave the house and procure his own food and clean after himself made this situation unbearable for him! And I can say one thing: he is not depressed. The speed with which he made alternate arrangements, packed up his big stash of belongings, and hightailed it out of here was impressive! He practically ran out the door. I was left reeling with shock.

    Dh is concerned that he will not last very long at that location and that he'll be asking to come back. I'm not sure how we would handle that if it happens. Dh doesn't think he can refuse because he's family. I think we could do a very limited stay and just be firm with the date and communicate it with his parents as well so that they won't be surprised when we tell him to go home.

    But for now, I have my house back! Yay!

  10. #30
    Moderator Float On's Avatar
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    Oh my word. What a mess. So glad he took off on his own. I was really afraid you were in for a long fight and I know if you don't have peace in your home it can really mess with everything else in your life. So glad he's gone. If he wears out his welcome somewhere else and asks to come back...First, I'd say no, but if you feel like you have to...lay out the rules.
    Float On: My "Happy Place" is on my little kayak in the coves of Table Rock Lake.

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