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Thread: What's your take on Betsy DeVos overturning Title 9 policies at US universities?

  1. #1
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    What's your take on Betsy DeVos overturning Title 9 policies at US universities?

    OK I have a bit of a stunner for one and all here given my status as a hard core liberal here.....ready? I'm all for Ms. DeVos overturning the Title 9 policies - in fact I applaud her in doing so and believe that this may be the one good thing that comes from the Trump administration.

    My reason? To me it's non-excusable that young men in a university setting are denied due process - the right to present evidence supporting innocence, the right to present witnesses - the right in general to defend themselves. To many young men's lives have been ruined on the mere word of a woman, with the young man having no right to defend himself from said accusation.

    To the ladies here, I am no rape apologist. Rape is a serious crime and in cases where there is proof/evidence beyond a mere accusation, I am all for prosecution to the fullest extent of the law. I just need more than a mere accusation is all. Is this too much to ask for? The need for the right for young men to defend themselves and have the right to present evidence contrary to the accusation? Is this a country worth living in if young men are not worth this right, and if so, why should men live in the United States if a price tag of this citizenship is such vulnerability? How is this in their best interest(s)?

    Furthermore, all that changes with the overturning of Title 9 policies is that young men will have the chance to defend themselves - women will still most certainly have the right to present claims of rape and the right to have these claims taken seriously and acted upon - just not accepted as complete truth before a man has the right to his day in court is all, which is how it should have been all along. I'd say this is a victory for men's rights and not a blow to women's rights as the right to present such claims is not hindered and the right to expect such claims to be acted upon legally is also not hindered.

    Thoughts? Rob

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    Senior Member Miss Cellane's Avatar
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    What I don't understand is why the universities investigate on-campus sexual assault at all. Why aren't the police doing this?

    If I were assaulted, I would not want inexperienced people who have a bias towards not giving the university a bad name investigating the crime. I'd want the police.

    So my perfect solution would be to take the university or college out of the picture completely, and let trained law enforcement deal with the situation.

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    I think you're right twice in a row today. The constitutional right to due process should apply to everyone. That the federal Department of Education can send a "Dear Colleague" letter to universities basically authorizing them (even pushing them) to set up their own version of Sharia Law has been a stain on our national honor since its very beginning. If we make exceptions to the Bill of Rights in one case, are any of us really safe?

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    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    My daughter is in college, this is her senior year.

    She was shocked upon arrival her freshman year to be required to attend a seminar on the University's sexual assault/harassment policies. It was 30+ pages of complex nonsense, basically meant to direct all complaints/issues, no matter how serious or criminal, through peer/faculty/admin review boards. There was a single paragraph, buried deep, that suggested that, well, of course you could always just call 911 and get the police involved, but really, The University is the way to go.

    My daughter got in a bit of trouble for suggesting that she was simply going to call janitorial services for cleaning up the mess, if anyone laid a hand on her without her permission, and that she intended to call the police first, and the university could talk with them once the police were done with the crime scene.

    It was clear the whole process was meant to sweep things under the rug quietly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    My daughter is in college, this is her senior year.

    She was shocked upon arrival her freshman year to be required to attend a seminar on the University's sexual assault/harassment policies. It was 30+ pages of complex nonsense, basically meant to direct all complaints/issues, no matter how serious or criminal, through peer/faculty/admin review boards. There was a single paragraph, buried deep, that suggested that, well, of course you could always just call 911 and get the police involved, but really, The University is the way to go.

    My daughter got in a bit of trouble for suggesting that she was simply going to call janitorial services for cleaning up the mess, if anyone laid a hand on her without her permission, and that she intended to call the police first, and the university could talk with them once the police were done with the crime scene.

    It was clear the whole process was meant to sweep things under the rug quietly.
    Eric Bloodaxe would be proud.

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    Senior Member Williamsmith's Avatar
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    Most universities have a duly authorized campus police force with all the power to enforce criminal statutes. Many have criminal investigators on staff. Some are retired police officers with years of experience. All are beholden in some way to the college administration which usually means sweeping embarrassing incidents under the rug. Most of these administrations champion publicly for social enlightenment and most are hypocrites when the university stands to take one on the chin or a hit to its coffers. Which means all the students are truly at the mercy of the school they attend if they believe that the school will act in the students best interest. It will not. It will act in the best interest of administrators and board members.

    The Pennsylvania State University has such a police force and it was entrusted with the investigation of the molestation of a child by a prominent university football coach. The campus detective was ordered by the director of campus police to drop the investigation. A slew of other children were raped by the coach who turned out to be a child predator.....all enabled by what I would describe as the good ole boys and girls network.

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    Senior Member Ultralight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife View Post
    OK I have a bit of a stunner for one and all here given my status as a hard core liberal here.....ready? I'm all for Ms. DeVos overturning the Title 9 policies - in fact I applaud her in doing so and believe that this may be the one good thing that comes from the Trump administration.

    My reason? To me it's non-excusable that young men in a university setting are denied due process - the right to present evidence supporting innocence, the right to present witnesses - the right in general to defend themselves. To many young men's lives have been ruined on the mere word of a woman, with the young man having no right to defend himself from said accusation.

    To the ladies here, I am no rape apologist. Rape is a serious crime and in cases where there is proof/evidence beyond a mere accusation, I am all for prosecution to the fullest extent of the law. I just need more than a mere accusation is all. Is this too much to ask for? The need for the right for young men to defend themselves and have the right to present evidence contrary to the accusation? Is this a country worth living in if young men are not worth this right, and if so, why should men live in the United States if a price tag of this citizenship is such vulnerability? How is this in their best interest(s)?

    Furthermore, all that changes with the overturning of Title 9 policies is that young men will have the chance to defend themselves - women will still most certainly have the right to present claims of rape and the right to have these claims taken seriously and acted upon - just not accepted as complete truth before a man has the right to his day in court is all, which is how it should have been all along. I'd say this is a victory for men's rights and not a blow to women's rights as the right to present such claims is not hindered and the right to expect such claims to be acted upon legally is also not hindered.

    Thoughts? Rob
    Are you a Men's Rights Activist? Not very fashionable, Rob!
    I came from a real tough neighborhood. I put my hand in some cement and felt another hand." -- Rodney Dangerfield

  8. #8
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultralight View Post
    Are you a Men's Rights Activist? Not very fashionable, Rob!
    Sort of yes and sort of no. I started becoming aware of men's rights issues when I started hanging around some straight men I went to high school with that have turned out to be incredibly cool in their middle age and I've kept in touch with. I had no real idea before this what straight men actually went through and this is a biggie for me - this denial of due process to young men accused of rape. This for me is up there with the soul depleting/soul crushing lack of socialized medicine in this country - it's a huge deal. So I'm not really going to protests and such for men's rights but I will make phone calls and send off emails for the cause.

    I'll also be a little kinder to Trump if Betsy DeVos does indeed overturn the Title 9 policies of the Obama era - not a day goes by that I don't miss the Obama years but this Title 9 fiasco was not the Obama Administration's finest hour, to put it mildly, and if taking a Conservative stance on this issue is the way towards regaining basic human rights for men in this situation, so be it - I am not above doing so in the Name Of Human Rights. Rob

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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post

    It was clear the whole process was meant to sweep things under the rug quietly.
    I think this sums it up perfectly.

  10. #10
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    my DD just went off to college and got the seminar on rape and calling campus police. I told her no, you call 911 and she agreed. I think Betsy Devos is out of her ever loving mind on this.

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