"Drag Queen Story Time"at the public library

[LDAHL]

I well remember hurtling through “Brown Bear, Brown Bear What Do You See?” to the final shocking conclusion. Or the exquisite psychosexual tension of “Fun with Dick and Jane”. I’m inclined to think early childhood literature should de-emphasize the literature part in favor of the fun part.

[JaneV2.0]

Not me, when my oldest grandson was young I'd lay in bed with him and read his favorite Dr. Seuss stories, How The Grinch Stole Christmas, And To Think That I Saw It On Mulberry Street, One Fish Two Fish Red Fish Blue Fish or Green Eggs And Ham. Besides having colorful characters for him to enjoy, each story had a particular cadence that, when read properly, put him to sleep in no time at all.

Ah, that's the secret lure of Dr. Seuss! I must not have read them right, because my younger cousins never seemed to fall asleep...

[jp1]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a9289166.html

This incident is certainly too bad, and is tangentially tied to the protest against drag queen story time, but I’m not gonna take away from it that “conservatives die if they protest drag queens.” Cancel culture seemed to give him grief, however.

Nor will I take away from it the idea that when gay people step outside of their support group and pre-determined ideology, they become unhappy and commit suicide.

I don’t really draw a broader lesson from this young man’s death other than it’s too bad when young people take their lives.

The lesson from that unfortunate death is that internalized homophobia is a killer. (and any young gay man actively lobbying against gay rights and organizing protests for drag queen story hour almost certainly has some major internal conflicts going on). LGBT teenagers are several times more likely to attempt suicide than their straight counterparts. And are more likely to do so with enough conviction to seriously harm themselves.

[iris lilies]

The lesson from that unfortunate death is that internalized homophobia is a killer. (and any young gay man actively lobbying against gay rights and organizing protests for drag queen story hour almost certainly has some major internal conflicts going on). LGBT teenagers are several times more likely to attempt suicide than their straight counterparts. And are more likely to do so with enough conviction to seriously harm themselves.

Yes it may be internalized homophobia. It may also just be that the kid thought drag queen story times are stupid with a capital S.


I still do. I’m still shaking my head over it years later. I don’t think they are wrong with a capital W. I don’t think they are sinful with a capital S. I don’t think they are corrupting to today’s youth.


I just think they are stupid and very very try hard. I’ve been trying to wrap my head around it for some years now and I’m not there. I guess I’m just not evolved. It’s funny that when I was looking this up I found a commentary by a Wall Street journal columnist who said, after observing her local drag queen story time, that the adults in the room were so pleased with themselves, they tittered and laughed! Like it was the greatest thing ever.

The four year olds in the room were about as interested in the storyteller as they are in regular ones which means not especially.

I repeat my assertions from a few years ago at the beginning of this thread: three-year-olds and four-year-olds don’t get the joke. These events are elaborate try hard events for smug librarians and even smugger parents to pat themselves on the back. I strongly believe the group of kids who would actually have fun at drag queen lead event would be preteens and up. They would get it.

[jp1]

If he were just protesting drag queen story hour that'd be one thing. But he was also organizing protests against the marriage equality ballot issue. The guy had issues.

I agree with you. Three and four year olds are probably too young to see that there's anything going on beyond story time. It's wasted on them. Unless the drag queen happens to be theatrical enough in a way that works with small kids that she can hold their attention. But yeah, kids a few years older would definitely have more fun with it.

[LDAHL]

In my experience, IL is right. A lot of these events are more about the adults involved than the children. A story time becomes an opportunity to signal your superior wokeness. A birthday becomes an opportunity to signal your superior economic status. Sporting events become a chance to work through your own thwarted ambitions. I kind of miss the days of free range children entertaining themselves rather than serving as props for their parents’ status theatre.

[happystuff]

I agree with you. Three and four year olds are probably too young to see that there's anything going on beyond story time. It's wasted on them. Unless the drag queen happens to be theatrical enough in a way that works with small kids that she can hold their attention. But yeah, kids a few years older would definitely have more fun with it.

I don't believe it to be wasted on any age. While I may not agree with the strict format of "drag queen story time" and would probably rather see this theme included as part and parcel of regular story time, I think the inclusion adds information and a normalcy for young kids to grow up with. My kids learned and heard about adoption from the day they were placed in my arms. It is something normal, not some unknown to be secreted away or ashamed of or anything else negative. It just is. Too often it is not the "differences", themselves, but the unknown about the differences that creates the problems.

[iris lilies]

I don't believe it to be wasted on any age. While I may not agree with the strict format of "drag queen story time" and would probably rather see this theme included as part and parcel of regular story time, I think the inclusion adds information and a normalcy for young kids to grow up with. My kids learned and heard about adoption from the day they were placed in my arms. It is something normal, not some unknown to be secreted away or ashamed of or anything else negative. It just is. Too often it is not the "differences", themselves, but the unknown about the differences that creates the problems.

But drag queens are not normalizing anything. They are not real life.



They are by definition high-octane entertainers. Does your every day drag queen dress up in glitter and heels and lashes and make up in order to go to the grocery store, walk your dog, etc.? The trans people in my neighborhood wear an earring and slightly long hair, maybe a girly type blouse At times, but when they’re out there shoveling dirt or riding their bike, they are not all tarted up.


Also there’s a confusing message about gayness. Having been schooled recently that “drag queen does not equal gay does not equal trans” so I wonder, what is the lesson here of normalcy.

[happystuff]

But drag queens are not normalizing anything. They are not real life.

They are by definition high-octane entertainers. Does your every day drag queen dress up in glitter and heels and lashes and make up in order to go to the grocery store, walk your dog, etc.? The trans people in my neighborhood wear an earring and slightly long hair, maybe a girly type blouse At times, but when they’re out there shoveling dirt or riding their bike, they are not all tarted up.

Also there’s a confusing message about gayness. Having been schooled recently that “drag queen does not equal gay does not equal trans” so I wonder, what is the lesson here of normalcy.

And this is exactly the point I was making! "drag queen" definition from Oxford Languages = 'a man who dresses up in women's clothes, typically for the purposes of entertainment" - typically does not mean "always". I know individuals who do what used to be called "cross-dressing". (need to educate myself to see if "drag queen" is the new term for this or not - lol). And when I am shoveling or bike riding, I don't get all "tarted up" either. Do you?

I think - for a start - the normalcy here is that differences are normal.

[jp1]

In my experience, IL is right. A lot of these events are more about the adults involved than the children. A story time becomes an opportunity to signal your superior wokeness. A birthday becomes an opportunity to signal your superior economic status. Sporting events become a chance to work through your own thwarted ambitions. I kind of miss the days of free range children entertaining themselves rather than serving as props for their parents’ status theatre.

At worst status theatre of this sort seems pretty harmless. At best when the former kids who were brought to this event realize that they are some form of LGBT, which will happen to roughly 5% of them, perhaps they will remember their parent having brought them to DQ story hour and feel less hesitant about opening up to them and seeking their support.