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Thread: Las Vegas

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Williamsmith View Post
    If America did this they would have to take and destroy up to 100 million guns from millions of citizens whose primary reason for owning them in the first place is to prevent a tyrannical government from confiscating them.
    So the primary reason millions of people own guns is to prevent the government from confiscating those same guns? That sounds a little circular to me.

    People own guns for all kinds of reasons, from the eminently practical to the what's-he-compensating-for pathetic. My view is that the government must justify its actions to the citizens, and not the other way around. Americans shouldn't need to provide a reason for wanting a gun any more than they need to provide a reason for opting out of public school or wearing white after Labor Day. I don't think it matters that the founders didn't foresee automatic weapons any more than the First Amendment is invalid because they didn't foresee the internet.

  2. #122
    Senior Member Williamsmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    So the primary reason millions of people own guns is to prevent the government from confiscating those same guns? That sounds a little circular to me.

    People own guns for all kinds of reasons, from the eminently practical to the what's-he-compensating-for pathetic. My view is that the government must justify its actions to the citizens, and not the other way around. Americans shouldn't need to provide a reason for wanting a gun any more than they need to provide a reason for opting out of public school or wearing white after Labor Day. I don't think it matters that the founders didn't foresee automatic weapons any more than the First Amendment is invalid because they didn't foresee the internet.
    Lets realize that it is not the only reason and it’s not even the reason you will get when you ask most gun owners. Most gun owners would like to be thought of as either sportsmen or hobbyists or home and self defense tacticians. Although, the latter is a reason many don’t prepare enough for. But if you ask every gun owner whether they thought owning a gun was a foundational prerequisite to protection against a tyrannical government....many might gaze in either direction then behind them and nod their head in agreement and the rest would boldly declare it.

    That your view requires the government to justify its actions to its citizens reflects the spirit of the Bill of Rights and specifically on guns..,the 2nd Amendment. In the example of Australia, the exact opposite is true. The government insists that the citizens justify their actions.

    In America, use of the “ban” word requires justification by our government. In the case of plastic accessories which turbo charge semi automatic weapons.....we will probably tolerate a reversal of Obama’s blessing on the use of them as a sort of peace offering toward the left. Most gun owners find no use for them anyway. It won’t make the nation a safer place by any measurable difference.

    What might be helpful is if the conversation would focus on reducing gun violence in urban places, finding ways to prevent accidental shootings and funding mental health treatment in proportion to the severe problems that cause suicide by firearm. Las Vegas was horrendous, but a drop in the bucket compared to the day to day slaughter Americans participate in.

  3. #123
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Williamsmith View Post
    But if you ask every gun owner whether they thought owning a gun was a foundational prerequisite to protection against a tyrannical government....many might gaze in either direction then behind them and nod their head in agreement and the rest would boldly declare it.
    All I could say in response to them would be "good luck with that."

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Williamsmith View Post
    What might be helpful is if the conversation would focus on reducing gun violence in urban places, finding ways to prevent accidental shootings and funding mental health treatment in proportion to the severe problems that cause suicide by firearm. Las Vegas was horrendous, but a drop in the bucket compared to the day to day slaughter Americans participate in.
    But we won't do that. We won't do it because that would single out people who by birth or happenstance find themselves in the cultural abyss where disrespect is a capital offense, and the willingness to commit violence is a coming of age rite. It's easier to blame the tools than the actor.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  5. #125
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    All I could say in response to them would be "good luck with that."
    +1 people with less delusional beliefs than that are talking to themselves on street corners.

    Besides who even knows what the belief is, it seems to be some kind of crazy, like the government is good up until bam one day it turns and become tyrannical. Because if it really is skepticism toward the government and "we might need to fight it some day" at least the consistent thing is to defund the military etc. as much as possible so as to weaken the government for when you have to fight it (the military is what anyone would be directly fighting). I'm not saying it makes sense even then, I'm just saying if there was any consistency in reasoning at all.

    But we won't do that. We won't do it because that would single out people who by birth or happenstance find themselves in the cultural abyss where disrespect is a capital offense, and the willingness to commit violence is a coming of age rite. It's easier to blame the tools than the actor.
    no we won't do it because we don't want to spend the money. But look other than programs helping families with children with not perpetrating violence there, I think there would be something badly twisted in some idea of getting everyone mental healthcare when people still lack basic physical healthcare. A question of wow: our priorities, they don't make a lot of sense ...
    If you want something to get done, ask a busy person. If you want them to have a nervous breakdown that is.

  6. #126
    Senior Member Rogar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yppej View Post
    The buybacks are voluntary. The benefit is not financial but if you have a gun illegally you can turn it in no questions asked.

    Edited to add: I was thinking of buyback programs in the U.S. They are voluntary.
    I had an older hunting single shot shotgun that was damaged to the point of little or no commercial value. Rather than discard it into the trash, I called the local police who said I could turn it into their station. It was not a pleasant experience. Although I wasn't treated quite like a criminal, there were obvious suspicions and it was not a comfortable experience. I had to answer a number of questions, show my ID which was photocopied, and have a policeman escort me to my car to retrieve the weapon. I do understand why it would not be acceptable to bring a weapon into the station. It was pretty much like they had never had something like that happen.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar View Post
    I had an older hunting single shot shotgun that was damaged to the point of little or no commercial value. Rather than discard it into the trash, I called the local police who said I could turn it into their station. It was not a pleasant experience. Although I wasn't treated quite like a criminal, there were obvious suspicions and it was not a comfortable experience. I had to answer a number of questions, show my ID which was photocopied, and have a policeman escort me to my car to retrieve the weapon. I do understand why it would not be acceptable to bring a weapon into the station. It was pretty much like they had never had something like that happen.
    I shouldn't be on here now. Not going to be around much this week (emergency situation, causing me to be gone before 8am and home just before midnight).
    There was a no questions asked turn in here, when they also did a hazzardous materials day.
    Two people turned in guns. Most of the cops already knew those two people and they still asked questions.
    I was one of them, with a firearm that had been dug up out of the yard, that I knew the history of (found part with axe marks on it, didn't find the other part). It's story involved being "empty" and going off when being cleaned, missing someone who lost a sibling, in the military, by a gun that was "empty" and was ordered to clean it, and thrown it.
    In truth, they are not anonymous.

  8. #128
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    Either my memory failed me or I never paid enough attention, because I just looked up Boston's buyback program. It is not no questions asked, but no charges filed for illegal possession of a firearm.

    It was hard reading about the reasons for it, like a 9 year old murder victim.

  9. #129
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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  10. #130
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    This raises a question for me. The speed of sound at ground level is what, 1100 feet/second or so? Wouldn't your average bullet travel fast enough to create its own little sonic boom regardless of how efficiently the suppressor worked? Is it safe for me to assume that those little "pfft, pfft" sounds you hear in spy movies is Hollywood BS? Sort of like the "boom" exploding spaceships make in a vacuum?

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