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Thread: largest employer in every state

  1. #11
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lainey View Post
    Of course, this is reported in the news like a horse race - none of the taxpayer money that's being used as bribery is ever mentioned.
    Just as the return on investment of those incentives is never mentioned.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  2. #12
    Senior Member SteveinMN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    My surprise is that with all the huge companies there are in NJ, pharmaceutical just being one sector, the largest employer is one I've never heard of.
    catherine, probably not by that name. But I think you'd recognize some of the brand names they use: ShopRite, Price Rite, The Fresh Grocer, and Dearborn Market.
    If Americans expended even a fraction of the energy on civic engagement that we spend on consumer ideology, our democracy would be much healthier. Can you imagine people camping out to vote? -- Charles Roberts, Amherst, Mass., Nov. 25, 2006

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    Just as the return on investment of those incentives is never mentioned.
    We've had this discussion before about government "not picking winners or losers" in a capitalist society. And even so, as this article and others have stated, the "returns" are often exaggerated while the municipality has no guarantee that the corp. will produce the economic effect it predicted. Nor does it have any leverage if the corp. continues to demand more and more "incentives" as years go by - yes, I watched the MegaCorp. I recently retired from play this game over and over: "we're going to move unless you rebate our taxes/forgo future property tax/give us a $ amount per job, etc." In the meantime the schools and public infrastructure in that state continue their decline.

    As a taxpayer I'd prefer my money to be used for its intended purposes: schools, libraries, fire and police, roads, sewer systems, helping disabled, waste management, etc. Giving hard-earned money to a CEO with a reported net worth of $83 Billion? No.

  4. #14
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lainey View Post
    We've had this discussion before about government "not picking winners or losers" in a capitalist society. And even so, as this article and others have stated, the "returns" are often exaggerated while the municipality has no guarantee that the corp. will produce the economic effect it predicted. Nor does it have any leverage if the corp. continues to demand more and more "incentives" as years go by - yes, I watched the MegaCorp. I recently retired from play this game over and over: "we're going to move unless you rebate our taxes/forgo future property tax/give us a $ amount per job, etc." In the meantime the schools and public infrastructure in that state continue their decline.

    As a taxpayer I'd prefer my money to be used for its intended purposes: schools, libraries, fire and police, roads, sewer systems, helping disabled, waste management, etc. Giving hard-earned money to a CEO with a reported net worth of $83 Billion? No.
    Local governments will always compete with other local governments for resources. In this case the resources are the jobs provided which help to boost the local economy and also bring in additional tax revenues to the local government. Using incentives to attract business is usually a win/win/win for everyone involved.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  5. #15
    Senior Member SteveinMN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    Using incentives to attract business is usually a win/win/win for everyone involved.
    In the short term, that's correct. In the long term, it's going to bankrupt a huge number of cities and counties and perhaps even states.

    Aside from whatever's written in the incentive agreements by shrewd lawyers, profit-making organizations have no stake in what happens in a particular location. They'll move on or even close up shop if that's what's best for them -- leaving behind what they leave behind -- an empty big-box store with acres of asphalt around it, a shopping mall that dies slowly from the slower traffic (eventually resulting in an empty big box with acres of asphalt around it); the payments for maintenace of the infrastructure (streets, water pipes, etc.) that they so loudly demanded with the original site but which now is drawing little to no compensatory tax revenue. But the incentives keep getting offered because every city/county/state is desperate to keep money coming in -- any money, even if it's not close to the amount needed to keep feeding the beast.

    The Minnesota Vikings skillfully played on people's love of football and Minneapolis' massive inferiority complex to get the city and the state to spend a billion dollars helping the Vikings build their new pleasuredome (we the citizens paid about half). The government and the team negotiated a number of days the building could be used for "public" events (n.b., not half of a year). Profits from naming the place, concessions, etc. go to the team. We're already losers and the Vikings are 3 and 2 this year.

    If past experience is anything to go by, the stadium will be used for about 15 years before it is declared functionally obsolete by the team and the noises begin about moving elsewhere (inferiority!!) if a new stadium is not built for them. In 20 years, the Vikings will be crying in their (then $15) beers about how they can't possibly make money playing in such a crackerbox. It happened with the North Stars, it happened with the Twins, it happened with the Vikings, and I fully expect it will happen with the Minnesota United soccer team, whose partially-publicly-funded stadium has yet to be built. Lather, rinse, repeat.

    Yeah, the new stadium is bringing Minnesota a Superb Owl (TM) that's supposed to bring tens of thousands of free-spending fans to our little burg. Studies indicate the game won't bring in the big bucks because it will cost a bundle in road construction, police overtime, cleaning costs, and free hotel rooms and seats for the visiting dignitaries. But that's okay. Minnesota has a(nother) The Big Game. See? We're not Omaha at all!

    If people would buy more shirts, light bulbs, and wastebaskets just because MegaMart opened a new store, subsidies might make sense. As long as the consumer market is relatively fungible and as long as local governments are stuck with the bill ad infinitum for infrastructure, subsidies are rarely win/win/win.
    If Americans expended even a fraction of the energy on civic engagement that we spend on consumer ideology, our democracy would be much healthier. Can you imagine people camping out to vote? -- Charles Roberts, Amherst, Mass., Nov. 25, 2006

  6. #16
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    Here they have provided TIFF (tax increment financing) for businesses to move in.
    Bass Pro moved in one area and little more then a year later, the city was having to make the financing payments for the developer. All the while, older area's of town, businesses are dying off, homes decreasing in value, longer drives, lack of close hospitals, etc.

    Then we had a push for stadium improvements (while it is already being talked about the "next stadium", possibly downtown, with no good/real parking). I would have liked to see something particular go to trial, rather then payoff's/payouts hushup stuff. Someone was suing the city and NFL when a kid was hit due to a drunk driver leaving the game. The city does a tailgating push, and only once did a dui checkpoint after and were effectively told not to do that again by the NFL and city higher ups.

  7. #17
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    It is a great visual representatin of the awesome power of evil Walmart.
    alan, where is that sticky?
    Last week I was sent to Kroger with a shopping list, one item being Barilla Elbow Macaroni. Upon arrival, I found that I had two choices, Gluten Free or Whole Grain, not a box of regular elbows in sight. I decided to adjust and go with Creamette or Mueller's and found that my choices didn't change, so I brought home the Barilla Whole Grain. When my wife questioned me on the choice and I explained that there were no regular elbows to choose from she advised me that I had to look at the very bottom shelf, way back in the back, that shoppers who liked things exactly as they've always been had to either get on their knees and reach for items or shop at Walmart. It seems that society has turned us into Walmart people.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  8. #18
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    Last week I was sent to Kroger with a shopping list, one item being Barilla Elbow Macaroni. Upon arrival, I found that I had two choices, Gluten Free or Whole Grain, not a box of regular elbows in sight. I decided to adjust and go with Creamette or Mueller's and found that my choices didn't change, so I brought home the Barilla Whole Grain. When my wife questioned me on the choice and I explained that there were no regular elbows to choose from she advised me that I had to look at the very bottom shelf, way back in the back, that shoppers who liked things exactly as they've always been had to either get on their knees and reach for items or shop at Walmart. It seems that society has turned us into Walmart people.
    I get my Barilla pasta from Amazon Prime/Amazon Pantry, and no bending is involved. I also don't have to traverse the combat zones Walmart parking lots have become here in the Pacific NW.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-walmart-crime/

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    It seems that society has turned us into Walmart people.
    So which picture are you? (people of walmart)

  10. #20
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToomuchStuff View Post
    So which picture are you? (people of walmart)
    So far we've escaped notice.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

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