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Thread: Disconnect about food and health

  1. #21
    Senior Member SteveinMN's Avatar
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    There are scores of reasons -- some of them with seemingly tangential connections to food -- why there is such a disconnect between what we eat and our health.

    Portions at restaurants are big because the minor cost of additional ingredients and labor "justifies" a price increase for the item that more than covers costs and seems like a "value" to customers. Americans pay a lower percentage of their incomes for food than most other economically-advanced countries, courtesy of large-scale industrial food processing -- food bred for profit margin rather than flavor -- and free borders and road subsidies that make shipping cheap. Zoning ordinances that promote sprawl have fostered thousands of neighborhoods that encourage car travel -- not walking or cycling -- to safely get pretty much anywhere. Classes like home economics are no longer taught, so many people don't learn to cook -- a shortcoming that ripples through generations. Even our medical system is biased to pay for treatment rather than prevention. Fixing what American diets are doing to Americans is going to be far more complex than imposing "soda taxes" and painting a couple of bike lanes into existence.

    And, actually, obesity is no longer just an American concern -- in fact, it's becoming more and more widespread across the (economically-advanced) world. The Japanese have seen obesity rates in youngsters swell as they move away from their traditional rice/fish/vegetable diet to more of a Western diet. Europeans are seeing more obesity as fast-food restaurants become more common and as more residents live away from walkable city centers. Americans on average long have been physically larger than many other people groups. so adding to that size makes obesity even more noticeable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Williamsmith
    I find myself wandering around the isles of the big box stores because I can’t justify paying more in the near term even though I know it’s best for me in the long term.
    It is possible to eat healthfully from a big-box store. They sell plain fresh and frozen vegetables, proteins can be chosen carefully, and not all grains are unhealthful. Just because one is shopping at Walmart is no reason the cart has to fill with Cheez Doodles, pre-breaded proteins, and pop/soda.

    I also can't quite agree with the idea of not paying "enough" now knowing that the bill will come due later. Not just for food; I'm not a huge fan of kicking the can down the road, regardless of who gets to pay for it later. But that's me and I know I don't always practice what I believe.

    I may have told this story before, but the first time DW accompanied me to the co-op, she put back some cheese she wanted to buy "because it was so expensive". Granted, we're not down to picking which bills get paid every month; some folks are for whatever reason and they may not believe they have a choice. But I suggested to DW that that was the price of cheese when the cows roamed freely to eat grass; when the people who produced it were not living on public assistance; and when the workers at the store were paid a living wage and had benefits like health insurance and tuition reimbursement. Is it best for us in the long term to pay up front? Or are we hoping someone else will pick up the tab later? I don't have the answer to that. But I know what my answer is.
    Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as by the obstacles which he has overcome. - Booker T. Washington

  2. #22
    Williamsmith
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    I spend an hour and a half four days a week in the gym. The same people come to workout and so I get to observe. What I observe is people who seemingly burn a lot of calories but don’t lose one ounce of noticeable weight....ever. The gym has a dedicated fitness coach, whose rate is $20/hr. Many pay the instructor three times a week...which could total easily $2000 a year and many don’t seem to lose a pound.

    So I think, okay they first came in at a certain inactivity level....they paid to have that forcibly increased and somehow all it did was increase their appetite and caloric intake so that no difference can be cited for their investment.

    It would seem to me that absent competing forces, Our society ought to have figured out obesity by now.....invested in nutrition coaches or I should say incentives to exercise and lose weight. We have tax deductions for things like gambling losses....but we can’t get a tax break for dedicated exercise or weight loss? Which there is no doubt would pay off in decreased healthcare costs in diabetes treatment alone.

  3. #23
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    I spend an hour and a half four days a week in the gym. The same people come to workout and so I get to observe. What I observe is people who seemingly burn a lot of calories but don’t lose one ounce of noticeable weight....ever. The gym has a dedicated fitness coach, whose rate is $20/hr. Many pay the instructor three times a week...which could total easily $2000 a year and many don’t seem to lose a pound.

    So I think, okay they first came in at a certain inactivity level....they paid to have that forcibly increased and somehow all it did was increase their appetite and caloric intake so that no difference can be cited for their investment.
    I think you are missing the point which might be fitness (ever seen skinny really weak and frail old people .. yea ... better than severe obesity but not that great either) but also .... in western society (and probably not primitive societies but let's deal with the actual situation here) people tend to gain weight as they get older. Going to the gym regularly probably puts a limit on that (although menopause etc. can create unique problems of it's own). It seems to do so to a great degree for me, my weight is rock stable, I simply don't gain weight very easily if I go to the gym some (and really I'm not even going everyday or anything). I don't lose weight a lot either, so even though the government might say my BMI is ok and not overweight, I know I have some fat and it's not at all Hollywood ideal I have to say (which is what every woman ACTUALY looks for when looking in the mirror - they really at some level are not at all happy with "more or less healthy if with a bit of fat and cellulite" but are comparing their bodies to female ideals they have seen everyday of their lives in the media).

    Though I don't claim anything will work for everyone there are reasons why getting some exercise will stabilize weight some, say you gain 10 pounds from overeating - not desirable or anything generally but if you are exercising this will also mean your body burns more calories when exercising (because a heavier body does) so it will lead to some weight stabilization in a way being sedentary won't.

    My gym is full of young hard bodies, but really I'm not looking to get hit on, I don't care if my gym clothes are kind of raggy, I don't care if I'm just the middle age person trying to get some exercise in ...
    Trees don't grow on money

  4. #24
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    The truth is emerging, if slowly, that weight isn't a simple matter of CICO--calories in, calories out--but the result of hormonal shifts that affect all our body systems. And, of course, there's a strong genetic component.

    The processed food industry and others with vested interests are not going down without a fight, as Tim Noakes in South Africa and Gary Fettke in Australia can attest. So we can look forward to plenty of dietary misinformation for the foreseeable future.

  5. #25
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Humans are able to effectively disconnect from reality when it feeds their ego.

    Last night I was a ridiculous example of this. I was sitting in bed, watching a few minutes of one of those awful reality shows about hoarding and thought "how CAN that woman be so oblivious to her immediate environment and standards of reasonable health and safety?" And meanwhile, it was raining into our bedroom. It has been raining (roof leak) for years now and has gone from 2 to 3 to 5+ buckets.

    Disconnect much?

    Hahaha. Yup.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Teacher Terry's Avatar
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    That is too funny. Why haven't you fixed the roof?

  7. #27
    Williamsmith
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore View Post
    I think you are missing the point which might be fitness (ever seen skinny really weak and frail old people .. yea ... better than severe obesity but not that great either) but also .... in western society (and probably not primitive societies but let's deal with the actual situation here) people tend to gain weight as they get older. Going to the gym regularly probably puts a limit on that (although menopause etc. can create unique problems of it's own). It seems to do so to a great degree for me, my weight is rock stable, I simply don't gain weight very easily if I go to the gym some (and really I'm not even going everyday or anything). I don't lose weight a lot either, so even though the government might say my BMI is ok and not overweight, I know I have some fat and it's not at all Hollywood ideal I have to say (which is what every woman ACTUALY looks for when looking in the mirror - they really at some level are not at all happy with "more or less healthy if with a bit of fat and cellulite" but are comparing their bodies to female ideals they have seen everyday of their lives in the media).

    Though I don't claim anything will work for everyone there are reasons why getting some exercise will stabilize weight some, say you gain 10 pounds from overeating - not desirable or anything generally but if you are exercising this will also mean your body burns more calories when exercising (because a heavier body does) so it will lead to some weight stabilization in a way being sedentary won't.

    My gym is full of young hard bodies, but really I'm not looking to get hit on, I don't care if my gym clothes are kind of raggy, I don't care if I'm just the middle age person trying to get some exercise in ...
    The point I thought I was making or interested in is....the status quo is simply not working. Going to the gym and paying an exercise coach is simply that. It needs married to a nutrition compliment. Otherwise, we are just treading water. Or worse, kidding ourselves. If I’m going to spend that kind of time doing something I don’t particularly look forward to...I’d like some benefit. A weight loss tax deduction or an active exercise program tax deduction might address health issues of at least the tax paying populace. For the rest.....I got nothin.......

  8. #28
    Williamsmith
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teacher Terry View Post
    That is too funny. Why haven't you fixed the roof?
    like my dad said, when the roof needs fixin...it’s raining. When it’s not rainin ....it don’t need fixin.

  9. #29
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teacher Terry View Post
    That is too funny. Why haven't you fixed the roof?
    There is no rational answer to this logical question. I guess the most truthful answer is that "it is too hard.".

  10. #30
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Williamsmith View Post
    like my dad said, when the roof needs fixin...it’s raining. When it’s not rainin ....it don’t need fixin.
    Yes, that a lot of it. I suspect I will be dead before this roof is fixed.

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