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Thread: Matt Lauer is out now too.........

  1. #1
    Senior Member CathyA's Avatar
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    Matt Lauer is out now too.........

    This is unbelievable. I'm sure there is a lot of sexual abuse/harassment going on out there, but I think there are different degrees of it, and I hate to see people judged too quickly and lose their life-long profession. It seems to all be snowballing. Maybe it will come out what Mr. Lauer did, but I hope it's not something small that happened 30 years ago........

    This is so difficult to sort out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CathyA View Post
    This is unbelievable. I'm sure there is a lot of sexual abuse/harassment going on out there, but I think there are different degrees of it, and I hate to see people judged too quickly and lose their life-long profession. It seems to all be snowballing. Maybe it will come out what Mr. Lauer did, but I hope it's not something small that happened 30 years ago........

    This is so difficult to sort out.
    Cathy, check out the announcement here by Savannah Guthrie and Hoda Hotb on the video at this site, if you did not view it (I did not);

    https://hotair.com/archives/2017/11/...assment-claim/

    I think it very gracefully expresses what they are feeling and is balanced and fair. You might take some comfort in it.

    The article also quotes a Tweet by a reporter named Yashar Ali:
    Yashar Ali
    @yashar
    I, and other reporters , have been aware of several women who have come forward privately in the past few months ...even before Weinstein. They weren’t willing to go public though...they were terrified of Matt. https://twitter.com/ap/status/935847499650215938 …
    7:29 AM - Nov 29, 2017



    That does not sound like a small thing from 30 years ago.

    Interesting that NBC acted so quickly. It implies that the climate is changing on this kind of sexual harassment is changing in the workplace. Thank God for that.

  3. #3
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Well, it seems sort of like a witch hunt at this point, but I think it's a very good thing if, going forward, it makes people think twice before misusing their power and authority.
    Last edited by catherine; 11-29-17 at 11:30am.
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    Senior Member SteveinMN's Avatar
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    I read an interesting article this past week about how the rush to judgement of those accused of sexual impropriety is punishing not only the (accused) perpetrators but sometimes many other people as well -- most of whom do not deserve such a severe punishment by innocent association.

    Aside from the questions of what constitutes sexual impropriety (a highly-subjective interpretation in some instances) and whether the evidence should allow judgement without some sort of trial, making the accused perpetrator's work disappear affects many more people than just the "perp".

    For instance, Kevin Spacey does not set up a camera on a tripod, rig a couple of lights, and then hold forth on a stage for an hour to create "House of Cards". Dozens of people -- actors, directors, technicians, property masters, makeup artists, accountants, etc., are involved. Making HoC disappear from the schedule and things like rebroadcast affects paychecks, residuals payments, and the (future) visibility of the work these people did. They are being punished for Spacey's accused impropriety.

    Correspondingly, while the accusations against Al Franken are disappointing (at best), is forcing his resignation from the Senate good for national action on women's issues given Franken's positive legislative track record on those issues? Reaching further and using a different example of discrimination, the classical composer Wagner was famously anti-Semitic. Yet albums of Wagner's works are not repressed and his name never found on classical concert programs. His work survives and is celebrated despite his view of what he thought was okay to do to other people.

    Now, before anything gets quoted out of context, let me state that I believe no one has the right to engage anyone else in sexual behavior in which the target does not want to participate. Rape, forcibly French-kissing someone, answering the door in a towel (or less) -- all of that clearly is inappropriate behavior even if the person doing it thinks the target of the behavior is interested or at the very least tolerant/compliant/submissive. Then there are the cases built around ages of consent. Even if not every instance of abuse outlined in recent weeks is 100% accurate, I believe plenty of it goes on. I fully understand that many are on the receiving end of a lot of attention they'd rather not be getting simply because they're a potential target of sexual interest.

    The article raised a couple of very good points about how the current atmosphere may well serve as a watershed moment announcing that sexual predation will no longer be tolerated but that the current response of disappearing the perpetrator's body of work hurts far more than the perpetrator. The remedy lies in the future and in protecting the body of work while making it clear predatory behavior is unacceptable.
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    Well said, SteveinMN. Thanks for the links, Tybee.

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    I think the reason this does not feel like a witch hunt to me is that these are allegations that women (and men) have been afraid to bring forth, as the system was definitely stacked against them, and they would not work again.
    So now that people are starting to come forth, this brings other people out who have been afraid to speak out, for fear of losing their jobs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tybee View Post
    I think the reason this does not feel like a witch hunt to me is that these are allegations that women (and men) have been afraid to bring forth, as the system was definitely stacked against them, and they would not work again.
    So now that people are starting to come forth, this brings other people out who have been afraid to speak out, for fear of losing their jobs.

    I agree, I am just encouraged that it seems the sexual history, mental stability and entire lifestyle is not being examined for everyone who had the courage to come forward.

    I am discouraged that it seems to be 'coming out of nowhere' for so many people. Doesn't seem like that to me, if you figure that something like 1 in 4 women has been sexually assaulted, and then you figure out how many women friends I have had over the years, and then you figure that people tend to tell me things they don't tell others, I have heard a lot of stories for a very long time. I know the story of my mother, but not from my grandmother or aunts. I even have my male friends tell me their assault stories, not as many but still happens.

    I am realizing what it means that so many people are distressed, that means they are hearing the stories many of us know well and it is distressing! I have some interesting responses to realizing that this has an emotional toll, like it would be okay if I was distressed or something?

  8. #8
    Senior Member CathyA's Avatar
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    I wish they would come out and exactly say what these perpetrators did. I'm not denying that some awful/unfair/horrible stuff happens to women, and it should in no way ever be tolerated.
    I'm just afraid that this snowball might catch some people who did so much less than others did. And I do have concerns that every woman's interpretation of what happens to her can be widely varied.

    Like I said in the other thread about this recent sexual harassment stuff, I do worry that some not-so-guilty people will have their professions and lives ruined. And I wonder how many women, in retrospect, might join in and say "Oh yea.....he abused me too".....when maybe he just squeezed their arm and winked.

    I am in NO WAY siding with the accused. I'm just saying, let's take it slow and make sure we are all hearing and interpreting things correctly.

    What I wonder about is, have people who worked closely with Charlie Rose and Matt Lauer (women), .....have they ever suspected anything like this?
    I did see part of the statement by Savannah Guthie and she seemed totally shocked, as did Gayle King and Nora O'Donnell regarding Charlie Rose. Maybe these men only picked on women lower down in the food chain?

    I also hope that the mindset of the National news stations isn't only about optics and they are only thinking of the viewers they would lose if they kept the accused on, until the facts were truly confirmed.

    What a mess.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Geila's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    Well, it seems sort of like a witch hunt at this point, but I think it's a very good thing if, going forward, it makes people think twice before misusing their power and authority.
    It might appear like a witch hunt, due to the volume of accusers. But I did a quick mental count of the men in power who had made inappropriate sexual advances to me when I was young (12-25) and unable/unaware of how to shut them down and the number was 8. This doesn't count small things like the adult male neighbors who used to flirt and make suggestive comments and gestures when I was in elementary school. I started with the old man who came out in a bathrobe and told me he was naked under his robe and was about to go in his jacuzzi and invited me to join him. I was 12 years old and at this man's house as translator for my dad who was giving him an estimate for a job he wanted done at his house. My dad didn't speak any English, so had no idea of what was going on. However, I was keenly aware of the impact that my reaction would have on my dad's chances of getting a much needed job. And so did the man making the advances. I remember feeling disgusted, confused, powerless, scared and angry.

    The second time, I was 14 and a high school freshman. My art teacher was very cool, we all liked him a great deal. One day we were walking outside after class and he told me that he would very much like to have a sexual relationship with me. He asked me if I would be willing to do it. I was speechless. And very confused. We had just met his much younger, and gorgeous, wife in class. Why would he need to cheat on her?? And I had thought he was so cool. But he was a creep. I didn't know what to do. How could I keep going to class everyday?

    I'm an ordinary woman, nothing special, so yes, I believe all these women. This behavior is so common. And women don't normally talk about it or speak out when this happens because we are scared, humiliated, and confused. At first the incidents are shocking, and then they just become a part of what it means to be a female in a male-dominated world. But always, we feel powerless to do anything about it.

    I asked DH how many times this sort of thing had happened to him, and he said never. Different life experience. But that doesn't make my experiences any less valid. That's why I never, ever, pretend to know what it feels like to be black in our country.

  10. #10
    Senior Member CathyA's Avatar
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    Wow Geila......so sorry for those things that happened to you.

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