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Thread: What about second chances?

  1. #1
    Senior Member CathyA's Avatar
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    What about second chances?

    I don't want anyone to think that I'm condoning all the sexually inappropriate things that have gone on with a number of people in the limelight. But I've been thinking..........some of these people have contributed a lot to their profession. For example......Charlie Rose and all his great interviewing. Some people really liked Matt Lauer too. If we're going to let hardened criminals out of prison to commit crimes again, why can't we give these other people second chances?

    It seems like the pendulum swings drastically in one direction or the other, and we have a lot of knee-jerk reactions.

    For example, why couldn't we say to people like Charlie Rose, etc...........okay.......your behavior was totally unacceptable. We want you to express your bad behavior publicly and on the air at your job......and you will be given one more chance, since you have contributed some good things for so long. But buddy......you mess up once more, and you're out of here.

    I'm not minimizing what they have done to people. I'm saying isn't there any way of redemption, other than destroying their lives?
    We seem to tolerate so much lesser violence, crimes, etc. Why couldn't we consider giving these people second chances?

    Just trying to start a conversation of the possibilities...........

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    Senior Member Williamsmith's Avatar
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    CathyA, I’m all for second chances but not at the cost of victims. Otherwise, you are victimizing them a second time. A victim needs to feel they have a chance at restorative justice. That doesn’t mean punishment for the offender makes everything right, it means those authorized to punish do so with the victims best interest in mind. It’s like applying ointment to a wound. It’s their job to heal but you need to assist it and not rip it open further. Furthermore, it is the victim and only the victim who can truly give the gift of a second chance. Actions have consequences.

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    Senior Member CathyA's Avatar
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    Thanks Williamsmith. That makes sense. Would there ever be a way for the perpetrators to make amends with their victims, and then continue to do good in their professional fields? Or do you feel that having them back in the public eye again (even with having made amends with the victims), would just rub salt in the victims' wounds?

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    Senior Member razz's Avatar
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    Cathy, I have struggled with the same issues. I was so distressed to read of the suspension of James Levine who has lead the Metopera orchestra and helped so many over the decades, changed the way conductors behave with musicians...

    That said, his alleged inappropriate conduct betrayed the youth who trusted him, parents who entrusted their children, the organizers of the special music camps for children, the donors who supported a worthy cause, the reputation of the organization, the loss of confidence by the supporters of the Metopera world-wide organization who are trying so hard to offer music and beauty...

    The consequences are so profound for so many but especially for the children influenced for life as seeing themselves as unclean, unworthy,
    losing trust in adults.

    i rinse and repeat my understanding that even if anyone spoke up and complained earlier, their claims would be denied because people found it too painful to deal with such an issue so avoided it by any means possible. The Catholic Church is the perfect example of wrongs committed and denied within and without the church organization until awareness reached a certain level but that took centuries.

    Power corrupts but is especially evil when those in denial enable it to first happen and then increase. I think the muddy rivers are being roiled with the sediment of inappropriate human behaviour being brought to the surface to be dealt with as it needs to be.

    Moral leadership is desperately needed from each of us.
    Gandhi: Happiness is when what you think, what you say and what you do are in harmony .

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    Senior Member Williamsmith's Avatar
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    I think the issue is much deeper than what you have pointed out. Employer/employee.....employee/victim......public trust......professional respect.... Hard to put a blanket statement regarding this out. I wouldn’t want to be in the public eye in this climate. It doesn’t take much to lose a career. But in most of these cases it seems one incident that is documented with evidence is an indicator of serial offending. Perhaps analogous to drunk driving.

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    edited as it was not on the topic posted

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    Senior Member Williamsmith's Avatar
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    I would like to add on a different introspective level....it is true for me that I am not disappointed when certain people I don’t really respect.....bite the dust this way. However, I get defensive when people I have admired get caught up or accused. Which to me only serves to highlight my human imperfection and immaturity. And I think certain....second chances...are born out of this unbalanced perspective...not out of true best interests of community.

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    "The Sex Pariah’s 6-Step Guide to Rehabilitation - POLITICO"

    I like that approach.

    https://apple.news/AOGLjdC_ATfSbvrX8JsHidA

  9. #9
    Senior Member CathyA's Avatar
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    I keep thinking I'll start a different thread on what I'm going to say. Being human........being a civilized human is really hard for many. IMHO, we are animals also. somewhere along the line, some decided to make laws that would appear to make society better (less like the animals)........even though our basic instincts are alive and well. Some of us can control them, and some of us can't. I never understood pedophilia or forcing sexuality on people, but I'm sure it happens all the time in the animal kingdom.
    This is just a "what-if" question, I think about. What if we didn't make sex so bad and if you were approached sexually when you were younger, it wouldn't cause you life-long agony? Have all these "civilized" laws and mores we've made, caused some of our crime, mental/emotional disorders? I think about all the rules that have been made, to make us civilized................monogamy, lawful age of having sex with someone, etc.

    I'm not anywhere near as good as some of you at articulating my questions/feelings. But I do think about things a lot, and have lots of questions.
    Our culture seems to be the best at talking out of both sides of it's mouth at the same time. Look at all the violence and sex in the movies, media, etc. And yet we have so many laws against so much. I know if we want our civilization to stay civilized, we need rules and regulations. I'm just saying, we have very old, hardwired instincts that, for many in this particular society, are impossible to overcome.

    I feel like I'm starting to ramble, so I'll stop.
    It's not easy being human.

  10. #10
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CathyA View Post
    I keep thinking I'll start a different thread on what I'm going to say. Being human........being a civilized human is really hard for many. IMHO, we are animals also. somewhere along the line, some decided to make laws that would appear to make society better (less like the animals)........even though our basic instincts are alive and well. Some of us can control them, and some of us can't. I never understood pedophilia or forcing sexuality on people, but I'm sure it happens all the time in the animal kingdom.
    This is just a "what-if" question, I think about. What if we didn't make sex so bad and if you were approached sexually when you were younger, it wouldn't cause you life-long agony? Have all these "civilized" laws and mores we've made, caused some of our crime, mental/emotional disorders? I think about all the rules that have been made, to make us civilized................monogamy, lawful age of having sex with someone, etc.

    I'm not anywhere near as good as some of you at articulating my questions/feelings. But I do think about things a lot, and have lots of questions.
    Our culture seems to be the best at talking out of both sides of it's mouth at the same time. Look at all the violence and sex in the movies, media, etc. And yet we have so many laws against so much. I know if we want our civilization to stay civilized, we need rules and regulations. I'm just saying, we have very old, hardwired instincts that, for many in this particular society, are impossible to overcome.

    I feel like I'm starting to ramble, so I'll stop.
    It's not easy being human.
    Well, that is an interesting idea.

    But I will disagree that because “we” make “sex so bad” that unwelcome advances cause lifelong trauma. It isnt “sex” in itself that is the problem, the central problem is violation of intimate boundaries, the secretiveness surround it and the attendant lying, and most importantly, the power differential between victim and perp. Any abuse be it sexual or otherwise points up the victim’s helplessness. It is the helplessness that haunts victims and sadness that no one came to their aid.

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