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Thread: What about second chances?

  1. #11
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    What about second chances for persons who have behaved in a sexually inappropriate manner, given that they may still be able to produce something of value in their occupation (... What about employers warning them, rather than terminating them as employees)?

    I do not know what Charlie Rose or Matt Lauer may or may not believe, but for discussion, let's assume they are willing to accept responsibility and to conform to expectations about participation in activities aimed at repair of themselves and others. Let us also assume they have access to a program similar to the RESTORE project in Pima County AZ which aims to foster a restorative justice response to sexual assault. As I understand RESTORE, there are supports for victims to minimize re-traumatization. The offender undergoes a rigorous psychosexual evaluation by a forensic examiner. Any agreement that emerges from victim-offender mediation can not call for less than minimum accountability (case manager supervision, therapy, monitoring by a volunteer community board, and community service).

    If the preconditions and resources for restorative justice were obtainable, punishment or retribution against the offender by his employer would be of questionable value. That is a BIG IF.

    For further reading:
    Mary P. Koss and Mary Achilles, "Restorative Justice Responses to Sexual Assault", 2008, available at National Online Resource Center on Violence Against Women.

  2. #12
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dado potato View Post
    If the preconditions and resources for restorative justice were obtainable, punishment or retribution against the offender by his employer would be of questionable value. That is a BIG IF.
    I disagree. From the employer's standpoint, the offender is a representative of their company. No employer wants to be associated with someone who hurts their brand so I don't believe the loss of a job reflects employer punishment, but rather an attempt to protect their image.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  3. #13
    Senior Member razz's Avatar
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    Cathy, whatever one chooses to do with their life, they choose it. If they choose to perpetuate inappropriate behaviour until called on it, they chose to perpetuate it. Unless, one is evaluated and found under vigorous examination as mentally incompetent, one is responsible for one's choices and actions.

    It is heartbreaking to lose one's perception of an ideal expressed in someone but denial is a very questionable choice. Honour what is worthy and good but accept that people's actions show their feet of clay; accept that we all need boundaries and need to comply with them including our heroes and ourselves.
    Gandhi: Happiness is when what you think, what you say and what you do are in harmony .

  4. #14
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    I don't believe that everything that may fall under sexual harassment causes lifelong trauma or any more so than a lot of other stuff that is just part of life. I do believe that sexual abuse of children and teenagers, and rape of anyone, can cause lifelong trauma though. I'm not saying any sort of sexual harassment should be legal in the workplace but of course it's not (but proving anything in a court of law may be an uphill battle depending).

    So yes sexual abuse of children and rape are really beyond the pale, but other things and losing jobs. Well the thing is Joe Schmoe who is not famous at all, can literally lose their job for anything, anything at all, the boss doesn't like they way they look at them or how they tie their shoes and they can lose their job. There is no protection, no recourse, no argument "but I didn't deserve to lose my job", even if that was 100% true and could 100% be proven to everyone's satisfaction (and good luck with that), they still have no case because "at will employment" means someone can be fired for just about any reason or absolutely no reason at all (except maybe protected category). But one does want to make an exception for uniquely talented people losing their entire careers, it may not be entirely fair, but I do too.
    Last edited by ApatheticNoMore; 12-6-17 at 1:20pm.
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  5. #15
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    Actions have consequences and they deserve to lose their jobs.

  6. #16
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    I am much more concerned with justice for the victims at this point than with second chances (probably more like tenth, fifteenth chances, etc.) for the perpetrators.

  7. #17
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    If you own a broadcasting company and you want to give them another chance, go for it. As has been stated, firing is not the same as criminal punishment.

  8. #18
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicken lady View Post
    If you own a broadcasting company and you want to give them another chance, go for it. As has been stated, firing is not the same as criminal punishment.
    I know, it seems odd that people arent getting that.
    The court of public opinion is not, thankfully, an actual court. I would not want to be buffeted about in the court of public opinion.

    Who gives these perps a second chance? Cathy A may do that by offering her opinion, and that is fine, we all get to make our own decisions and talk about them. So, she can lobby CBS or NBC or whatever network Lauer was on to take him back, that is her circle of influence.
    Last edited by iris lilies; 12-6-17 at 5:37pm.

  9. #19
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    I am on the side of the victims, I mean they just finally are getting heard after years or decades. It seems we can not jump as quickly to helping the people who were on the offending side. And it is about power more than sex. I was talking to someone last night, it is a large culture and so it will take a huge change that will affect everyone.

    Restorative justice is a powerful process. It does take willingness on both parts. So a victim should be pressured into participating. I have even heard about RJ process where a proxy stood in for the victim and let the offender work out their part in it and take responsibility. In the justice system they do not get absolved or have any legal consequences changed however, it is simply to restore balance in the relationship and community.

  10. #20
    Senior Member razz's Avatar
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    Did you mean that a victim should NOT be pressured?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoe Girl View Post
    I am on the side of the victims, I mean they just finally are getting heard after years or decades. It seems we can not jump as quickly to helping the people who were on the offending side. And it is about power more than sex. I was talking to someone last night, it is a large culture and so it will take a huge change that will affect everyone.

    Restorative justice is a powerful process. It does take willingness on both parts. So a victim should be pressured into participating. I have even heard about RJ process where a proxy stood in for the victim and let the offender work out their part in it and take responsibility. In the justice system they do not get absolved or have any legal consequences changed however, it is simply to restore balance in the relationship and community.
    Gandhi: Happiness is when what you think, what you say and what you do are in harmony .

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