Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 46

Thread: What about second chances?

  1. #31
    Senior Member CathyA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    8,030
    Yppj..........I think a lot about everything, from all angles..........so please don't think my questions imply some sort of stand I have on anything. I just can't get my mind to stop thinking about so many things, from different viewpoints.
    Absolutely, I DON'T think celebrities should get a pass. Nothing is black and white. Nothing. And so I spend a lot of time in those shades in between........trying to sort things out.

    This country is getting just too complicated for me. So many people with so many needs, demands, egos, etc. It's really hard to sort a lot of it out.

  2. #32
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Price County, WI
    Posts
    424
    (Chiming in)

    The topic of this thread is a question. In my view it is a good and timely question. The question in the Original Post was a "seeking opinion" type of question. Also it is a question which triggered a wide range of responses. People can agree to disagree. All to the good!

    I did not read the question as "rhetorical"... I did not look at the question as though it implied a stand CathyA would take on the issue. "Seek, and ... on a good day... ye shall find." <with a wink and a nod>

  3. #33
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,428
    Quote Originally Posted by dado potato View Post
    (Chiming in)

    The topic of this thread is a question. In my view it is a good and timely question. The question in the Original Post was a "seeking opinion" type of question. Also it is a question which triggered a wide range of responses. People can agree to disagree. All to the good!

    I did not read the question as "rhetorical"... I did not look at the question as though it implied a stand CathyA would take on the issue. "Seek, and ... on a good day... ye shall find." <with a wink and a nod>
    I think everyone should be given a second chance but that does not negate experiencing the consequences of ones actions, consequences based on facts and not opinions or emotion. You reap what you sow but those who show mercy will be shown mercy.

  4. #34
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3,011
    Seems to me like a lot of these guys were given many chances in their lives -very good opportunities and they blew it by behaving inappropriately again and again. We can all agree that women in particular have been exploited as it has been societally accepted for years. I think a corner has been turned for the perpetrators and our culture. At least I hope.

  5. #35
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    6,423
    Just yesterday a woman was tearing up at work telling me how a coworker swore and screamed at her years ago and nothing was done. The woman is still in our group and the victim has to see her every day. At a previous job I was sworn at, screamed at, and had papers grown at me also with nothing done to the perpetrator and I will never forget that, and these are nowhere near as bad violations as sexual assault.
    they aren't even illegal. All this behavior is legal, there is no case here. My last job was one where I felt I was completely regressed into childhood (an abusive childhood natch) by the behavior of people (well really mostly one person), but I knew they held all the power in the organization compared to me and I had none. I knew 100% how the power dynamics would play out. So now I'm unemployed, but life goes on, what can you do, look for work, do whatever else seems productive as well. Somedays I feel so weak and hardly able to deal with what the adult world is at all, but noone can surrender to that feeling for long. There is no legal case as it was mere verbal bullying which isn't illegal. Try to claim workers comp for emotional injury, oh yea do that and have a hard time working again, you don't want to do that.

    And everything is subjective anyway, I couldn't handle their really rough unpredictable personality, I never knew when or why they would be upset with me, which scared me, and regressed me back to childhood emotionally where my dad would start throwing things in rage. OTOH mean emails are NOT ILLEGAL. And though I kept trying to get work done in difficult emotional conditions at work despite whatever anxiety and depression this caused me (going to the gym helped keep my mood more steady through all this so I was emotionally resilient), but I did make mistakes at work, the type a company that wants to keep an employee forgives and one that doesn't doesn't. Period. There is no black and white in things like mere verbal bullying, everything can be somewhat subjective especially if it's mostly written communication, and none of it is illegal regardless. And there is ALWAYS, nearly always, a "reason" to fire an employee "for cause" if they want, as employees are not perfect, and so if you want to fire them you just bide time for them to make a mistake which being human they probably will. When they falsely accused me of mistakes I didn't make and I could prove as much, I predicted that "I've probably won for now (sometimes they didn't seem to care what the facts were at all, but this time they seemed to acquiesce), but ... someday I really would make an actual mistake". And of course I did. This person had gone on vendettas to get people fired and gossiped about it the whole time I was there (no it wasn't even a manager but they could pull strings). Several times I told my bf, "I don't know what is going on in this workplace, it's like nowhere I've ever worked, I feel almost like I'm being framed". Well that's how it may feel, and it may have made it very hard to work there while I did, but there is no case there at all.

    There are degrees but they are all unacceptable behaviors that should have zero tolerance. How can you claim that "grabbiness" hasn't scarred someone? Who made you the judge and jury of the victim's experience, that you can say it's "normal experience"?
    I said it probably didn't scar someone any more than normal life experiences. Say one is laid off in a mass lay off in say the great recession and is unemployed a long time. THAT experience probably scars people at a FAR deeper level than a single grab, but we call it normal adult life experience and are extremely indifferent. So I was just saying let's be real and keep some context about all that adult life actually is. But it doesn't mean I'm not glad there are policies against grabbiness. Because not everything can be policy, but I think they have done a good job with sexual harassment laws (the enforcement part I woudln't know).
    Last edited by ApatheticNoMore; 12-7-17 at 2:11pm.
    If you want something to get done, ask a busy person. If you want them to have a nervous breakdown that is.

  6. #36
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    1,084
    I agree emotional abuse is horrible, but I don't see our culture stopping it until we first clean up the physical and sexual abuse that most people including me find more egregious.

  7. #37
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    3,334
    So I was just watching Jefferson Airplane on American Bandstand and one of the recommended videos from youtube was this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZMQU4c1pEg

    Roy Moore could have written this song...

    "Well she was just 17, if you know what I mean
    The way she looked was way beyond compare...
    How could I dance with another? wooo! when I saw her standing there?"

  8. #38
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    1,084
    Cultures evolve - and some don't. Moore's defenders are correct that Mary was a teenager when she married Joseph - and there are still child marriages in the Middle East. The widower Benedict Arnold, around Moore's age at the time of his pursuit of teenagers, met and wooed the 17 year old who became his second wife.

    Before it was acceptable for a powerful man to force a woman into his harem. It was accepted that masters raped their slaves. Polygamy including with under age wives was accepted.

    But surely we want to move forward as a society. Jefferson Airplane was founded in 1965. Think of all the groups in this country still marginalized at that time much more so than they are now over 50 years later.

  9. #39
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    8,294
    My great-grandfather was sixty when he married his second wife. She was eighteen. They went on to have four (or was it five?) children. He died in his garden (like the Godfather) when he was ninety. It's perfectly natural for men to be drawn to adolescents from a biological standpoint, IMO. But we have laws and community standards, and forcing oneself on someone who's essentially a child at fourteen crosses the line. Other than that particular offense, Moore's hebephilia doesn't bother me as much as the rest of his package. Pun intended.

  10. #40
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    5,132
    My paternal grandparents married at 21 and 14, then spent the next 65 years together. Times change.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •