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Thread: What about second chances?

  1. #41
    Senior Member CathyA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    My great-grandfather was sixty when he married his second wife. She was eighteen. They went on to have four (or was it five?) children. He died in his garden (like the Godfather) when he was ninety. It's perfectly natural for men to be drawn to adolescents from a biological standpoint, IMO. But we have laws and community standards, and forcing oneself on someone who's essentially a child at fourteen crosses the line. Other than that particular offense, Moore's hebephilia doesn't bother me as much as the rest of his package. Pun intended.
    You said what I've been thinking too........about society and how we make things wrong/immoral/illegal, etc. Girls start being able to conceive at 10-12 years. Men can produce viable sperm forever. We have so many instincts that we are out of touch with, and society makes rules and determines what's "right" and what's "wrong", without even thinking about instinct. As usual, I'm not making a judgement (for the most part) on people's leanings. I'm just explaining why some things might happen.
    I'm just constantly trying to understand why things happen. It can get pretty weird for me though..........knowing that men who are attracted to younger women are considered evil and branded as pediphiles.........when it might be just instinctual.
    As everything, there is a continuum. Some people who commit a "sexual" wrong can fall anywhere from the total left of the continuum, and some who fall totally on the right........but we lump it all together as the same thing. We're harder on some of these people than we are to people who commit horrendous crimes. I don't know what the answer is. There's just too many people for the government/society to know the true mind and behavior of each "perp".........so we treat everyone the same.

    Like Sen. Franken stepping down..........versus Moore or even Trump. It's all pretty crazy.
    Yes, I could say that being sexual with a young child isn't good...........but how can we brand someone a pedophile for life, if they were 18 and had sex with their 16 year old girlfriend?
    I wish we could get a little more control of that pendulum.........that always swings too far in the opposite direction of whatever made it swing too far in the other direction.
    I'm rambling. I wish I could stop thinking for awhile and just take a rest........ But the direction of this society, in so many areas, is making my mind run on over-drive. I think I smell smoke.

  2. #42
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    I think a lot of people feel in certain situations strong instinctual anger. Think of expressions like "I was so mad I could have killed him" or "I'm going to kill him when he gets home". But thankfully most of us limit this to a figure of speech and don't murder people.

    Our species rules the planet because we are able to control our instincts for the collective good of society.

  3. #43
    Senior Member razz's Avatar
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    So society should permit harems because that is a call of nature in animals to have a herd of females? Are the males going to compete to death for control of the herd of females? So puberty-aged boys should be able to experiment with their younger sisters? Who is going to define the boundaries?
    Civilization is the mastering of the animal instinct, IMO, not the servant.
    Gandhi: Happiness is when what you think, what you say and what you do are in harmony .

  4. #44
    Senior Member CathyA's Avatar
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    I'm not saying that. I'm just trying to explain why we're where we're at. I don't think it will all work. I think mankind might be at an end-game. To me, homo sapiens don't even belong on this planet.......they seem to be so destructive, compared to the other beings. Yes, I'm very pessimistic about our future..........

  5. #45
    Senior Member razz's Avatar
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    Cathy, I do appreciate what you are exploring and trying to understand but I have had this discussion a number of times and it keeps coming back to "who defines the boundaries?" and "who enforces the boundaries?" Self-government is a large part of the answer and asking if one is being governed by self-gratification or caring for the well-being of another?
    Gandhi: Happiness is when what you think, what you say and what you do are in harmony .

  6. #46
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    In actual human life in actual society I don't think sex instinct is any more important than power relations in determining human behavior.

    An 18 year old with a 16 year old girlfriend are basically the same age or close enough that it's probably not a difference worth splitting, there may be a power imbalance if one is a rock star or something, but two high school students, not particularly. But society doesn't know any better way to handle it than have an age of consent, and frankly neither do I particularly. We could have a policy that went a lot lighter on the offense if the ages were within 2 years or something maybe, but I think it would require a far more nuanced understanding than is likely to happen soon.

    However you want to talk power relations: Monica Lewinsky will Bill Clinton, no minors involved, but serious power imbalance. So it was voluntary. I don't think it should be illegal. But at the same time it's really in many ways not right (oh not right to Hillary I suppose either of course, but even just in itself, it is abuse of power). He had so much more power than her it wasn't funny, the age difference was a whole lot of it, I don't think people of vastly desperate ages where one is still quite young can ever be an equal relationship, but in that case one was President as well Hope noone makes this about Bill Clinton's policies, it was just the most obvious example I could think of, but I think with vast age differences it's never an equal partnership if one is really young.

    Men and their instincts and their perspectives are the only voice we hear year upon years upon years (are the only voice I have heard overwhelmingly all my life even). Their perspectives on sex and their perspectives on the workplace and their perspectives on what is important and should be the goals of life etc.. It is all we ever hear. They tell almost all the stories in this society. What might happen eventually is we start to hear women. I'm not saying every accusation is necessarily true or anything (although when there are dozens probability ...), in a court of law both must be considered of course (it's just hard for the average person to see the employment contract as such, as it's simply not!) But I don't need to hear how things are for men "in general", I know, I know it sometimes better than I know myself.

    I'm Gen X, I feel like we never had any feminist exposure except that we were supposed to have equal job opportunities (which is ok, certainly nothing wrong with that), but feminists are sometimes like a breath of fresh air, as mostly it's a man's world, we just live in it.
    Last edited by ApatheticNoMore; 12-9-17 at 2:26pm.
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