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Thread: What about second chances?

  1. #21
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    [... the central problem is violation of intimate boundaries, the secretiveness surround it and the attendant lying, and most importantly, the power differential between victim and perp. Any abuse be it sexual or otherwise points up the victim’s helplessness. It is the helplessness that haunts victims and sadness that no one came to their aid.]


    YES!! This. It is the abuse of the power over another person. If we could only move to equality...

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by razz View Post
    Did you mean that a victim should NOT be pressured?
    Correct, I would counsel and inform the victim about the process and reassure any concerns she or he has. Many victims feel it is a good process but if the offender is not able to fully take responsibility then it can re-victimize. If we are talking about 'power over' then the choice to participate cannot be a situation where the offender or others have power to pressure a victim into participating. Plus it just really isn't effective if everyone is not choosing to be there.

  3. #23
    Senior Member razz's Avatar
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    Giving this issue thoughtful consideration, perhaps the question could be rephrased. How can we honour the contribution of those who have done great good throughout their lives but made very inappropriate choices in behaviour that had terrible consequences? This is not just true about sexual abuse, BTW, although sexual abuse is unique in the violation of intimate boundaries.

    As has been mentioned, being fired is not the same as being found guilty of a crime and imprisoned. In all the time that the individual has been doing good, he (mostly males) has been receiving recognition, rewards and having a very positive life experience. So often, the target of the inappropriate behaviour has not.

    Recognition of that imbalance is helpful, IMO anyway.
    Gandhi: Happiness is when what you think, what you say and what you do are in harmony .

  4. #24
    Senior Member Williamsmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razz View Post
    Giving this issue thoughtful consideration, perhaps the question could be rephrased. How can we honour the contribution of those who have done great good throughout their lives but made very inappropriate choices in behaviour that had terrible consequences? This is not just true about sexual abuse, BTW, although sexual abuse is unique in the violation of intimate boundaries.

    As has been mentioned, being fired is not the same as being found guilty of a crime and imprisoned. In all the time that the individual has been doing good, he (mostly males) has been receiving recognition, rewards and having a very positive life experience. So often, the target of the inappropriate behaviour has not.

    Recognition of that imbalance is helpful, IMO anyway.
    The positive body of work so to speak done by a man named Joe Paterno, Head Coach of the Penn State University football team did nothing to save him from his firing and removal of a statue in his honor and his subsequent death brought on by a broken heart over a matter of serial rape that occurred by his main assistant for many years. Some considered him a saint so if he received no such forgiveness.......well that is one very good example if there ever was one.

  5. #25
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    Once a pervert, usually always a pervert. Anthony Wiener was exposed (pardon the pun) and given a second chance and he offended again. Maybe jail will make him hit bottom and change.

    I would only support a second chance after sufficient punishment like incarceration. Sexual predators and not low level drug offenders should be filling our jails. For instance I don't care how many great movies Roman Polanski made. When you drug and sodomize a 13 year old girl they should lock you up and throw away the key.

  6. #26
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Last night I was driving home from Newark listening to the radio and the host was talking about how the top two TIME contenders for Person of the Year were Trump (again) and Colin Kaepernick, and the talk show topic was, which would you pick?

    Well, TIME has spoken and the "PERSON OF THE YEAR" are the Silence Breakers

    http://time.com/time-person-of-the-y...eakers-choice/

    Good for TIME!! Great pick. This is a watershed moment for all those powerful people who believed they could get away with really bad behavior just because.. from now on, they better think twice.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  7. #27
    Senior Member Williamsmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    Last night I was driving home from Newark listening to the radio and the host was talking about how the top two TIME contenders for Person of the Year were Trump (again) and Colin Kaepernick, and the talk show topic was, which would you pick?

    Well, TIME has spoken and the "PERSON OF THE YEAR" are the Silence Breakers

    http://time.com/time-person-of-the-y...eakers-choice/

    Good for TIME!! Great pick. This is a watershed moment for all those powerful people who believed they could get away with really bad behavior just because.. from now on, they better think twice.
    I disagree. Thanks to Colin, I do t waste my time watching meaningless football entertainment. But Time is simply trying to sell magazines. Trump would have sold just as many. Person of The Year should have been a woman, Nurse Alex Wubbels.

  8. #28
    Senior Member CathyA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yppej View Post
    Once a pervert, usually always a pervert. Anthony Wiener was exposed (pardon the pun) and given a second chance and he offended again. Maybe jail will make him hit bottom and change.

    I would only support a second chance after sufficient punishment like incarceration. Sexual predators and not low level drug offenders should be filling our jails. For instance I don't care how many great movies Roman Polanski made. When you drug and sodomize a 13 year old girl they should lock you up and throw away the key.
    But like we've talked about in other threads about this..........not everyone who harrassed women are pedophiles and predators to the same horrible degree. I just want us to be able to understand the differences...........

  9. #29
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    I am very glad many workplaces have moved toward a zero tolerance policy toward sexual harassment. What exactly they do about it is probably dependent on internal HR policies.

    I do know someone at a prior workplace who was almost certainly framed and falsely accused of sexual harassment and let go for that. I believe it was false because the accuser was suing the company for several things including discrimination, and seemed to have a learning disability that also made them unsuited for their job (I saw this first hand), HR had to build the case for years to let the accuser go just because of all the lawsuits they had launched. Really a sad situation all around for all involved, the accused for sure although with their skillsets I'm sure they got another job but still kinda sucks, and sad even for the accuser as it was sad in some ways they had a learning disability that made them unable to just do their chosen career at all without resorting to all the almost certainly frivolous lawsuits.

    However I still think it's good that real sexual harassment is less tolerated in workplaces nowdays.

    So no not all the situations of real sexual harassment (leaving aside any false accusations) are pedophiles and predators, it might just be lewd remarks or an instance of grabbiness, that doesn't really scar anyone for life anymore than a thousand things that are just part of normal existence and that we dismiss. However it shouldn't be part of the workplace and I'm glad it's being seen an unacceptable at work.
    If you want something to get done, ask a busy person. If you want them to have a nervous breakdown that is.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by CathyA View Post
    some of these people have contributed a lot to their profession. For example......Charlie Rose and all his great interviewing. Some people really liked Matt Lauer too.

    For example, why couldn't we say to people like Charlie Rose, etc...........okay.......your behavior was totally unacceptable. We want you to express your bad behavior publicly and on the air at your job......and you will be given one more chance, since you have contributed some good things for so long.
    It sounds like you think celebrities should get a pass. And no, I still don't think they should stay in their jobs. Imagine having had the courage to speak up against this, and then you go to work and the creep who called you into his office supposedly about work and locked the door and tried to assault you is still there, all he had to do was issue an apology, under duress and maybe not sincere, all your coworkers knew he got away with it, and because he's still there, powerful, and pulling down millions, instead of feeling supported and justified in coming forward you feel like the office snitch.

    Just yesterday a woman was tearing up at work telling me how a coworker swore and screamed at her years ago and nothing was done. The woman is still in our group and the victim has to see her every day. At a previous job I was sworn at, screamed at, and had papers grown at me also with nothing done to the perpetrator and I will never forget that, and these are nowhere near as bad violations as sexual assault.

    There are degrees but they are all unacceptable behaviors that should have zero tolerance. How can you claim that "grabbiness" hasn't scarred someone? Who made you the judge and jury of the victim's experience, that you can say it's "normal experience"? Normalizing this behavior is why so many people have been afraid to speak out before now.

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