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Thread: Jury Duty January 9th......

  1. #1
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Jury Duty January 9th......

    Crud. I received that dreaded postcard like thing in the mail recently and depending on how my phone call to the automated jury line goes the night before my scheduled date to appear for jury duty, I may be going downtown (actually quite close to where I work, which is amazing in a city of such urban sprawl such as Phoenix) for jury duty.

    I rather doubt it would surprise anyone here that I don't care to participate (though I've discussed this with a few people already who are of the opinion that to effect any change, I should go and then pick apart everything - something I have absolutely no problem with whatsoever).

    At this late date I doubt there is any need to go into my take on law enforcement in general and police brutality to be specific. So my question is this - given that I find the whole criminal "justice" system revolting - would I be better off attempting for disqualification during the interview process (in Arizona based on my prior experience, the judge asks you towards the end of the process if there are any issues relevant to the selection process that he/she should know about, which would give me the chance to speak of my take of law enforcement, police brutality, and documented cases of prosecutors suppressing evidence that led to an innocent person being convicted)........or would do you believe, given my beliefs, that I should participate and give them the 85006 treatment? (blatant inability to believe anything a prosecutor or police officer might say, coupled with a willingness to question EVERYTHING and hold things up as long as possible?)

    Please understand that for me the above actions would be situation specific, meaning that if I believed that the defendant truly was guilty based on overwhelming (and I mean overwhelming) evidence, I would behave very different from what I propose above. In other words, the above is not automatic.......

    I am of the opinion that some folks here believe jury duty is a civic obligation and I'm not entirely against this belief myself....what ruins this concept for me is that I have witnessed police brutality before and that there are too many videos showing police brutality in action. I also will never be able to forgive the fact that until the infamous video of Nurse Alex Wubbels being illegally and unconstitutionally arrested this past Summer was released, the Salt Lake City PD did absolutely nothing in regards to this incident. In other words, rubber had to hit the road before the appeared to care, before they appeared to be guided the laws they claim to uphold. So my point is that crooked police officers and crooked prosecutors have ruined the concept of jury duty as a civic obligation for me.

    I find this whole issue bothersome to say the least and I hope, hope, hope I am dismissed the night I call in! Wish me luck with this please! Rob

  2. #2
    Senior Member Simplemind's Avatar
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    I am 61 and just got summoned for the first time. Went in two days and was sent home two days. Go, fulfill your civic duty, say your piece if asked. I have to say although I understand your feelings in specific I am appalled that you paint the rest with such a wide brush.

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    Judges are complicit in a system in which defendants are pressured to plead out regardless of whether they are guilty to keep the cases moving along. Juries provide an alternative, a way for ordinary citizens, who are not jaded by working in the criminal justice system for years, an opportunity to weigh evidence and provide justice. You are concerned about biased prosecutors. Believe me they dislike jury trials.

    I think you should serve and can do so honorably.

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    Senior Member Williamsmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife View Post
    Crud. I received that dreaded postcard like thing in the mail recently and depending on how my phone call to the automated jury line goes the night before my scheduled date to appear for jury duty, I may be going downtown (actually quite close to where I work, which is amazing in a city of such urban sprawl such as Phoenix) for jury duty.

    I rather doubt it would surprise anyone here that I don't care to participate (though I've discussed this with a few people already who are of the opinion that to effect any change, I should go and then pick apart everything - something I have absolutely no problem with whatsoever).

    At this late date I doubt there is any need to go into my take on law enforcement in general and police brutality to be specific. So my question is this - given that I find the whole criminal "justice" system revolting - would I be better off attempting for disqualification during the interview process (in Arizona based on my prior experience, the judge asks you towards the end of the process if there are any issues relevant to the selection process that he/she should know about, which would give me the chance to speak of my take of law enforcement, police brutality, and documented cases of prosecutors suppressing evidence that led to an innocent person being convicted)........or would do you believe, given my beliefs, that I should participate and give them the 85006 treatment? (blatant inability to believe anything a prosecutor or police officer might say, coupled with a willingness to question EVERYTHING and hold things up as long as possible?)

    Please understand that for me the above actions would be situation specific, meaning that if I believed that the defendant truly was guilty based on overwhelming (and I mean overwhelming) evidence, I would behave very different from what I propose above. In other words, the above is not automatic.......

    I am of the opinion that some folks here believe jury duty is a civic obligation and I'm not entirely against this belief myself....what ruins this concept for me is that I have witnessed police brutality before and that there are too many videos showing police brutality in action. I also will never be able to forgive the fact that until the infamous video of Nurse Alex Wubbels being illegally and unconstitutionally arrested this past Summer was released, the Salt Lake City PD did absolutely nothing in regards to this incident. In other words, rubber had to hit the road before the appeared to care, before they appeared to be guided the laws they claim to uphold. So my point is that crooked police officers and crooked prosecutors have ruined the concept of jury duty as a civic obligation for me.

    I find this whole issue bothersome to say the least and I hope, hope, hope I am dismissed the night I call in! Wish me luck with this please! Rob
    Is this a criminal or civil trial?

    Your idea of overwhelming evidence does not meet the beyond a reasonable doubt standard....it sounds more like beyond all doubt to me and there is clear instruction to a jury about that not being the standard.

    You should be honest about your political and personal convictions which I am confident will get you dismissed from jury duty....which is what you want anyway and what the defendant and the prosecution deserve. You are clearly biased. If you want released just submit a copy of this post to the judge and it will facilitate that.

    Also don’t be surprised if someday you decide to skate onto a jury by answering the voi dire questions rather harmlessly and possibly misleadingly only to be confronted either in open court or privately about social media posts. Both sides are more and more finding the benefits of internet searches and social media investigations for jury selection. That could be embarrassing.

    The criminal justice system should not be viewed as something to manipulate, give a certain zip code treatment to, or hold things up.....simply to make a mockery of the best way modern man knows how to dispense justice. All involved deserve better than that and you should stick to serving brautworst and beer.

  5. #5
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Williamsmith View Post
    Is this a criminal or civil trial?

    Your idea of overwhelming evidence does not meet the beyond a reasonable doubt standard....it sounds more like beyond all doubt to me and there is clear instruction to a jury about that not being the standard.

    You should be honest about your political and personal convictions which I am confident will get you dismissed from jury duty....which is what you want anyway and what the defendant and the prosecution deserve. You are clearly biased. If you want released just submit a copy of this post to the judge and it will facilitate that.

    Also don’t be surprised if someday you decide to skate onto a jury by answering the voi dire questions rather harmlessly and possibly misleadingly only to be confronted either in open court or privately about social media posts. Both sides are more and more finding the benefits of internet searches and social media investigations for jury selection. That could be embarrassing.

    The criminal justice system should not be viewed as something to manipulate, give a certain zip code treatment to, or hold things up.....simply to make a mockery of the best way modern man knows how to dispense justice. All involved deserve better than that and you should stick to serving brautworst and beer.
    Fair answer. I do believe I am very much biased - honestly biased - and this is irrevocable at this point. You make a clear and compelling argument as to why I should not serve on a jury. The only issue I have with your post period is your last sentence.....I'm no longer serving but am now a low level banquet supervisor - which has nothing to do with the point of either of our posts, to be fair. Rob

    Came back to add that I don't know as of yet if the trial in question is civil or criminal.

    Came back again to add that I googled to learn about being disqualified for jury duty based on social media posts - something I did not know was going on - and apparently it is going on. Amazing but in this case it actually works for me.....but I also find it too far reaching and creepy too.
    Last edited by gimmethesimplelife; 12-25-17 at 8:41pm.

  6. #6
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Voir dire questioning in criminal cases here usually includes some version of ”Do you always believe a police officer is telling the truth?” so this is where you can shine, Rob. Be open and honest about your attitude and ideas, that is your responsibility as a citizen. Let the chips fall where they may..

    I realize you are itching for a fight, but keep in mind that you may be called into a civil case that has no badnick policemen, and while that would be disappojnting for you, it is reality. Not every court case gives you occasion to fly your activist flag and be the White Knight you imagine you are.


    Edited to add: I see William Smith made my points also, so thanks!

  7. #7
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    Voir dire questioning in criminal cases here usually includes some version of ”Do you always believe a police officer is telling the truth?” so this is where you can shine, Rob. Be open and honest about your attitude and ideas, that is your responsibility as a citizen. Let the chips fall where they may..

    I realize you are itching for a fight, but keep in mind that you may be called into a civil case that has no badnick policemen, and while that would be disappojnting for you, it is reality. Not every court case gives you occasion to fly your activist flag and be the White Knight you imagine you are.


    Edited to add: I see William Smith made my points also, so thanks!
    I'm not 100% here, IL, but I do know that where I would be serving if chosen to be on a jury would be the Phoenix Municipal Court downtown and not the Superior Court. I am no legal expert here but I think (could be wrong here, though) that the more serious cases are tried at the Superior Court downtown and not the municipal court.

    Interesing side note, IL. I was rejected for jury duty at this same court in 2005 with no activism being necessary. The case in question was of drunk driving and when the judge asked his round of disqualifying questions I could honestly answer yes to two of them. The first one was have I been impacted by alcoholism in my life - yes, my father was a raging alcoholic so there was my first yes. The second question was if I'd ever taken a law class at school, to which I could honestly answer yes as I took a class in Business Law at North Arizona University the Spring Semester of 1987 - hard to believe 30 years have passed since then!!! At any rate, I may get honestly disqualified without having to bring up my issues with the police etc. It's possible anyway. Rob

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    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Google “jury nullification”, smile and nod during jury selection, then strike.

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    A lot less chance that you will be serving on a criminal trial, as there are more civil trials. You still can be kicked out by experiences/bias in a civil trial (that person has more money, so they should give it up to the other person, just because). That doesn't count Jury nullification mentioned above. I have been summoned multiple times, the most recent, screwed me up as there was a court auction I was supposed to attend the same day/time. I have been kicked up for several things, from a lawyer on one case, being involved with one I was involved with, several questions I answered honestly, then also telling the bailiff that we the jury would hold her in contempt when they kept saying lies about how long we would be waiting in a hall with no seating, a pregnant woman, an elderly person (canes), and a couple of people in casts.
    That doesn't even cover anything about how this country "rents" your time, even though you refuse to do anything about it.
    I expect you would get kicked off/out, or get contempt of court, maybe both.

  10. #10
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    Municipal court handles minor matters: https://www.azcourts.gov/AZ-Courts/City-Courts

    I always hope that if I should find myself accused of something that I'd like to have someone on the jury who would at least listen and then decide based on the facts. If you think of it that way - putting yourself in their shoes - then you would be an asset. And it's always good to have an inside look at the system itself.

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