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Thread: Jury duty morning.....

  1. #31
    Senior Member herbgeek's Avatar
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    I guess I'm really surprised that someone who has advocated for multi million dollar lawsuits against cops, doesn't also want to participate in the process that would yield such a judgement.

  2. #32
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dado potato View Post
    I had a jury experience in which I was in a minority that had a "reasonable doubt" that the prosecution had proven guilt. The majority seemed to believe that the police would not likely arrest, and that the prosecution surely would never proceed against a person unless they had done something to deserve it. It was stressful for me, because in that jury room I was trying to stir up some critical thinking, but most of the others wanted to say "guilty, and get it over with". But the stress on us jurors was small compared to the ordeal of incarceration that could have befallen the accused and his family.
    I found it incredibly stressful, too. Too long a story to relay on a post, but it was not fun. But I agree that someone has to do it.
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  3. #33
    Senior Member SteveinMN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife View Post
    Give me some credit. With my life experiences I still showed up for jury duty anyway
    I saw this a couple of decades ago on an on-line mailing list:
    Democracy quits working when the citizens quit working at it. Then they become subjects.
    I try to never forget that. I am a citizen. And I will work hard to prevent becoming a subject.

    And I did serve jury duty.
    Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as by the obstacles which he has overcome. - Booker T. Washington

  4. #34
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by herbgeek View Post
    I guess I'm really surprised that someone who has advocated for multi million dollar lawsuits against cops, doesn't also want to participate in the process that would yield such a judgement.
    Thank You for your post here. You have really made me do some thinking and since I was given today off (too much overtime) I have time to respond to your post, Herbgeek.

    As to your comment regarding not understanding why I don't care to participate in a process that indeed does offer huge paydays for law enforcement officer misdeeds when caught on video (always leave home with a fully charged smartphone!!!!!)......I can see where my take on jury duty could be perceived as inconsistent with my belief in cashing in on the illegal, unconstitutional and abusive behaviors of law enforcement officers - here's an explanation.

    I know people in the 85006 who are unable to work due to having a brush with the law in their past - some are large brushes with the law, some are quite trivial and minor - no difference - due to background checks and due to America (and to be fair, too, Canada is guilty of this) giving no second chances to those with a criminal past (that sounds so awful too for some of these petty and minor offenses) they are unable to work.

    I personally believe (and you don't have to agree with me here and I'm not trying to convert anyone) there there is some kind of afterlife and I don't want to be punished for participating in a system that would ruin a stranger's life for committing some kind of low level offense. I am not capable of such and I don't believe this citizenship is worth doing such to a stranger - I deserve better. Should I have sat on a jury (God forbid, no religious offense intended to anyone) for a low level offense, I would have to vote an immediate not guilty so as to not ruin a stranger's life due to background checks hindering them for the rest of their life. Should I encounter any kind of threatening backlash, this to me would be fodder for a political asylum claim to one of the better countries. I don't know if such a claim would be successful to be honest, but at least I might be able to draw some kind of attention to the plight of those victimized by the system for the rest of their lives, with no real chance at a second chance - and once again, I'm including Canada in this as Canada does this too.

    I just am too decent of a human being to ruin a stranger's life by voting guilty for a low level offense. Now if we were talking murder or rape or elder abuse or child abuse - were there actual evidence that was beyond dispute - I'd somewhat reluctantly have to vote guilty as I am a decent human being. This is not an auto-vote in other words.....but the courthouse I was at yesterday was misdemeanor based - lower level offenses. I'd have no choice but to auto vote not guilty as I've seen how brutal and non-compassionate America is to those with a minor record. I just can't do this to another human being and would have no problem with using such as fodder to get out of America permanently if forced to do so in any way. My moral compass is that sharp and that strong.

    I hope this answers your post in a clear and understandable way. And Thank You, Herbgeek, for making me think. I always appreciate that. Rob

  5. #35
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveinMN View Post
    I saw this a couple of decades ago on an on-line mailing list:


    I try to never forget that. I am a citizen. And I will work hard to prevent becoming a subject.

    And I did serve jury duty.
    Hi Steve!

    On the surface I'd agree with your quote about democracy. On the surface only, to be clear.

    The problem is that I have known far too many people for whom America truly does not work, some of whom through no fault of their own. Because of this, with all due respect, I don't agree with this quote. For far too many people, America as it stands today truly does not work - and I am unable to look the other way and pretend this is not the case.

    Maybe you can understand some of my posts better now because I've posted the above? I don't see the system overall the way many folks here do, and I'd hazard to guess (?) that my life experiences and what I've seen have something to do with this.

    Sad part is, at this late date if I could snap my fingers and somehow unsee and unlearn what I have seen and learned that has led me to such stances - I wouldn't do it. It would be like taking my basic humanity away and I would not want that. Rob

  6. #36
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    I'm coming back to post something that has indeed dawned on me - there is one inconsistency in my posts. Believing as I do, it would be more understandable and more fitting in with my moral compass to serve on a jury (instead of actively working on getting out of jury duty) and auto vote someone accused of a low level offense as not guilty to spare a stranger how evil America is to someone with a low level record when looking for work or applying to rent an apartment. So there is some inconsistency in my takes - I'll admit that here and now.

    My only excuse (and it's a bit of a cheap one at that) is that I find the entire justice system in America - civil, criminal, and family courts - corrupt and sleazy (sleazy meant in a non-sexual way).....but with my moral compass that should not matter and I should still serve and auto vote not guilty. So some of you are right - there is inconsistency here. Offshore me - I'm not perfect......I'm just afraid of America, that's all. Rob

  7. #37
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    I have no particular problem with employers’ preference for employees who don’t have criminal records. Sometimes we need to live with the consequences of our mistakes. I certainly don’t think it invalidates the legal system.

  8. #38
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    What is a “low level offense”?

  9. #39
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    What is a “low level offense”?
    Pretty much any misdemeanor outside of a DUI which I personally on the surface consider serious but then with BAL levels going down to generate more revenue, I'd be tempted to automatically vote not guilty on a DUI too based on what the BAL level in a particular state is that would constitute a DUI. In some states it's getting ridiculously low to generate revenue and I'd have to vote not guilty in this case to be able to live with myself. Rob

  10. #40
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    I have no particular problem with employers’ preference for employees who don’t have criminal records. Sometimes we need to live with the consequences of our mistakes. I certainly don’t think it invalidates the legal system.
    With all due respect, for any non-violent misdemeanor, I'd have to say I disagree. I don't see how it's possible to forgive America for this based on the fact that you can be arrested these days for sneezing too loud......For a serious felony, I would say that yes, the employer should have the right to take this into consideration, yes. My problem is that like with so much of America these days, there is no sense of proportion or perspective - this I personally will never be able to forgive. Rob

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