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Thread: Question about women and what they want........

  1. #1
    Senior Member CathyA's Avatar
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    Question about women and what they want........

    I've been wanting to talk about this for awhile. Wasn't sure this was the right place, but here goes.

    OF COURSE no one should be harassed/abused, etc. And please don't say what I'm saying is "She asked for it". (Well....maybe she did, but unconsciously/unintentional and then had limits that weren't obeyed).??

    I always think in terms of instinctual behavior. Yes, we've come a long way baby in terms of trying over-ride instinct, with mores, laws, etc.

    But.....what bothers me with the recent "Me Too" movement is that I think many women talk out of both sides of their mouths, so to speak.

    I'm glad most of the Women at the Golden Globe awards who wore black (didn't watch it, just saw some news on it), didn't have their boobs hanging out, as usual (and the "don't you just really want me?" look on their faces).
    Of course, they still had hair and make-up.

    I'm having trouble understanding why women need to "dress up", wear make-up, wear provocative clothing, yet still demand to not be treated a certain way.

    For the most part, I think this triggers some behavior in men that they don't want (or do they??) Maybe they want attention up to a certain point, and not beyond.??

    I was a hippie in the 70's and came to the conclusion that everything on the outside is unimportant.....so I quit wearing make-up and "dressing up" and tried to always be direct and honest.

    It's what's inside that counts, right? I've pretty much remained that way ever since.

    I've told women in the past "You don't need to wear make-up" and their usual answer is "Well, you're just lucky your skin is so nice." Huh? And then they say they are not doing it for men, they are
    doing it for themselves. Huh? Is it all just a matter of buying into the notion that you're not a decent person if you don't look a certain way? And was this put out there to just make a lot of money by the skin/cosmetic/clothing industry? I find it all very unfortunate.

    And all these women celebrities who expose themselves at the other awards ceremonies.........what do they think about themselves doing that??
    I'm just trying to understand behavior. It seems to me to be a trap that they are or aren't aware of.

    What complicates everything is the notion that women must look a certain way..........clothes, make-up, etc. It drives me crazy. And it just seems totally in denial to not appreciate how the way they dress can be a come-on to the men around them.

    Again......there's no excuse for a man to continue to bother a woman who says NO..........but I do have a lot of questions........

  2. #2
    Moderator Float On's Avatar
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    There were definitely boobs and revealing dresses. I did watch..mainly because I was just drained and too tired to leave the couch.
    Float On: My "Happy Place" is on my little kayak in the coves of Table Rock Lake.

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    Cathy A., My thought is that women should dress any way they want and men should control their "urges". I should be able to run down any street at any time of the day stark naked if I want and not be approached or propositioned or harassed in any way. The way to stop harassment is for men to STOP harassing, just like the way to stop rape is for men to stop raping.

  4. #4
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Float On View Post
    There were definitely boobs and revealing dresses. I did watch..mainly because I was just drained and too tired to leave the couch.
    I started skimming the web during The Golden Globes show to see what they were wearing. I was horrified to see everyone in black, it looked like a convention of crows and witches. Then I figured out they were protesting something, probably Trump. I rolled my eyes and moved on.

    I do actually like The Golden Globes awards although seldom watch the televisin production. I like those awards because they give out a LOT of them, separating comedies and dramas, and including television productions. If one is going to watch an awards show this is one I recommend because you see many Hollywood elite all dressed up but do not have to endure all of the tribute moments and musical numbers of the Oscars. BUt I guess there was some fandango Operah Winfrey award, so that was a piece of boredom.

  5. #5
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    People are complicated creatures.

    Just because you drive a Maserati or wear Versace doesn't mean you deserve to be robbed at gunpoint.

    I didn't see much of the Golden Globes, but loved the elegance of black attire.

    I enjoyed wearing makeup when I did, and I may again. I liked the way it made me look. Although one of the best compliments I ever got was from a drag queen, who looked at me appraisingly and remarked "You're pretty in a plain sort of way." He probably would have liked me even better with eyelashes...(Which I could put on in under a minute in a moving vehicle.)

  6. #6
    Senior Member SteveinMN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CathyA View Post
    What complicates everything is the notion that women must look a certain way..........clothes, make-up, etc. It drives me crazy. And it just seems totally in denial to not appreciate how the way they dress can be a come-on to the men around them.
    I think that notion of looking a certain way drives much of this. Definitions of style (and, indirectly, beauty [which we've discussed on SLF before]) vary considerably among societies and even among times in the same society. What is considered a modest bathing suit in America in 2018 was scandalous by the standards of America not 100 years ago.

    Western society venerates youth and money. There's a lot of effort and noise telling people they should look younger and minimize physical flaws (hence hair dye, Spanx, makeup, plastic surgery) and to show they have the money it takes to replace that perfectly functional sweater or dress with a new one that has a different cut/hemline and color.

    It's a kind of peer pressure with ready designations of success. So, from that perspective, I believe women do dress like this for themselves. I don't say this to imply women are sheep to listen to the voices telling them to not look old or out of fashion; they, like men, are immersed in the messages, from childhood on. I do believe men have had, over the years, other ways to make themselves stand out in society (stature, power, money) -- options which have not been available to women for that long -- so they've largely resisted the drumbeat.

    But I often wonder myself at how many people convince themselves that they can ignore the instinctual. Not that that excuses harassment or any kind of violence. But it does create an interesting dichotomy. Makes one wonder what life would be like in America if society adopted the Middle East Muslim form of shapeless head-to-toe covering for men and women in (what I like to think anyway) a less-patriarchical society.
    If Americans expended even a fraction of the energy on civic engagement that we spend on consumer ideology, our democracy would be much healthier. Can you imagine people camping out to vote? -- Charles Roberts, Amherst, Mass., Nov. 25, 2006

  7. #7
    Senior Member CathyA's Avatar
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    Good post Steve.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by CathyA View Post
    I've been wanting to talk about this for awhile. Wasn't sure this was the right place, but here goes.

    OF COURSE no one should be harassed/abused, etc. And please don't say what I'm saying is "She asked for it". (Well....maybe she did, but unconsciously/unintentional and then had limits that weren't obeyed).??

    I always think in terms of instinctual behavior. Yes, we've come a long way baby in terms of trying over-ride instinct, with mores, laws, etc.

    But.....what bothers me with the recent "Me Too" movement is that I think many women talk out of both sides of their mouths, so to speak.

    I'm glad most of the Women at the Golden Globe awards who wore black (didn't watch it, just saw some news on it), didn't have their boobs hanging out, as usual (and the "don't you just really want me?" look on their faces).
    Of course, they still had hair and make-up.

    I'm having trouble understanding why women need to "dress up", wear make-up, wear provocative clothing, yet still demand to not be treated a certain way.

    For the most part, I think this triggers some behavior in men that they don't want (or do they??) Maybe they want attention up to a certain point, and not beyond.??

    I was a hippie in the 70's and came to the conclusion that everything on the outside is unimportant.....so I quit wearing make-up and "dressing up" and tried to always be direct and honest.

    It's what's inside that counts, right? I've pretty much remained that way ever since.

    I've told women in the past "You don't need to wear make-up" and their usual answer is "Well, you're just lucky your skin is so nice." Huh? And then they say they are not doing it for men, they are
    doing it for themselves. Huh? Is it all just a matter of buying into the notion that you're not a decent person if you don't look a certain way? And was this put out there to just make a lot of money by the skin/cosmetic/clothing industry? I find it all very unfortunate.

    And all these women celebrities who expose themselves at the other awards ceremonies.........what do they think about themselves doing that??
    I'm just trying to understand behavior. It seems to me to be a trap that they are or aren't aware of.

    What complicates everything is the notion that women must look a certain way..........clothes, make-up, etc. It drives me crazy. And it just seems totally in denial to not appreciate how the way they dress can be a come-on to the men around them.

    Again......there's no excuse for a man to continue to bother a woman who says NO..........but I do have a lot of questions........

    Women are in competition with other women. All the time. Must dress a certain way, must wear makeup before leaving the house.

    Showing up at a workplace not being properly dressed or wearing a least a little makeup would be frowned on.

    As for the skin showing......I have never let my daughters go out like this......there are animals on the loose, better to be safe than sorry.

  9. #9
    Senior Member razz's Avatar
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    Men wore heels and wigs to be pretty not that long ago. It started because they needed heels to stay in the saddle when riding horses and went crazy from there. People have followed the leader forever. If one dressed black, society often condemned one as a witch and society followed the leader. When leadership leads to judgement and exclusion if non-conforming, the masses will obey so as not be excluded. It takes enormous courage to face the risk and wrath of society's mesmeric behaviour. Men and women follow the leaders but the leaders often demand different behaviour from the sexes based on the leaders' questionable decisions. Is that not how gangs operate? I am sure that the Rohingya in Myanmar attacks horrify many Buddhist soldiers from whom such behaviour is demanded and supported by Buddhist monks.
    Why do people do what they do? Often, they perceive it as survival. When I see clothes that sexualize 3-5 year olds etc., and few alternative choices that let them just be little kids having a life, I am not surprised that certain behaviour seems puzzling. The 'princess' parties and such like are horrible, IMO, for indoctrinating how girls ought to perceive themselves.

    Rather than asking why females do what they do, ask why society is so judgemental about options of dress, behaviour and expectations of the sexes. Who made the decisions?
    Gandhi: Happiness is when what you think, what you say and what you do are in harmony .

  10. #10
    Senior Member CathyA's Avatar
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    Speaking of little girl princess parties.......I have to interject something I saw last night. I was waiting a few minutes early to watch "The Good Doctor" and preceding it was "The Bachelor". OMG.........I felt like vomiting.

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