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Thread: Another school shooting, multiple fatalities

  1. #541
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razz View Post
    Not being an intruder from Canada so much as asking in the interest of discussion, why the need for 'an effective means of self-defence'? What drives this need in the US?
    I think more than anything, it's philosophical. This country was founded under the radical philosophy that the individual was not subservient to a ruler or central government and immediately became a beacon of hope for people from every corner of the world. The ability for the individual to protect themselves and their families from tyranny perpetrated by other individuals or groups is essential to maintain that independence.

    Of course, our government made every effort to keep indigenous peoples from enjoying that right and it turned out badly for them. Our government denied slaves the ability to protect themselves and the practice thrived for generations as a result. World history is filled with examples of tyranny against peoples denied the right of an effective defense.

    Some modern societies depend upon the altruism of their local and national governments to maintain their safety, ours has shown itself un-deserving of that trust. But that's must my opinion.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  2. #542
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    Other countries donít have this issue and we should look at ones with low instances of mass shootings and their solutions.

  3. #543
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teacher Terry View Post
    Other countries don’t have this issue and we should look at ones with low instances of mass shootings and their solutions.
    I'd start with teaching absolute right and wrong and ensure consequences are worthy of avoidance. We've stopped doing that with our children.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  4. #544
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    Quote Originally Posted by razz View Post
    Not being an intruder from Canada so much as asking in the interest of discussion, why the need for 'an effective means of self-defence'? What drives this need in the US?
    I think the more fundamental question to ask is why the exercise of a given right requires justification.

  5. #545
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    I'd start with teaching absolute right and wrong and ensure consequences are worthy of avoidance. We've stopped doing that with our children.
    I think that's very true. Regulation is a poor substitute for morality and transient political fashion is a poor substitute for custom and tradition.

  6. #546
    Senior Member razz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    I think the more fundamental question to ask is why the exercise of a given right requires justification.
    OK, I can see the given right of self-defence viewpoint but does not every right have responsibilities that go along with the right? Is it the needed education of the responsibilities that is missing? When it was given as a right, were no responsibilities attached? Or is it the chosen means of self-defence that requires the responsibilities defined and the education?

    I'd start with teaching absolute right and wrong and ensure consequences are worthy of avoidance. We've stopped doing that with our children.
    Is this the part of teaching rights and responsibilities that you were thinking, Alan? If so, where and how to start?
    Gandhi: Happiness is when what you think, what you say and what you do are in harmony .

  7. #547
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razz View Post
    Is this the part of teaching rights and responsibilities that you were thinking, Alan? If so, where and how to start?
    Yes, the three greatest influencers in any childs life are the home, their school and their church, which should all be local. Meaning we should not handicap local school districts with federal edicts or handicap families with programs that indirectly encourage breaking up nuclear units. If we did those two things, I think churches would regain their place as social, if not spiritual influences. I think we would then see gradual but positive changes in popular culture and media influencers.

    My wife works at an elementary school servicing the poorest area of our county and it is obvious which children are from broken families and which ones are not, which children are taught right from wrong and which ones are not and which children have positive social influences and which ones do not.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  8. #548
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    I think more than anything, it's philosophical. This country was founded under the radical philosophy that the individual was not subservient to a ruler or central government and immediately became a beacon of hope for people from every corner of the world. ...
    Maybe it's because this country was founded on genocide; we've been a violent people since our inception. And then there's the Puritans, to add a fillip of cruelty to the mix But we're a relatively new country--kind of adolescent--and we may eventually grow some maturity, one hopes. Of course being by far the biggest arms dealer in the world doesn't help matters.

  9. #549
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    Maybe it's because this country was founded on genocide; we've been a violent people since our inception.
    If you take those two statements as fact, that's all the more reason not to trust those who wish to take away your means of self defense, dontcha think?
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  10. #550
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    If you take those two statements as fact, that's all the more reason not to trust those who wish to take away your means of self defense, dontcha think?
    I can see where some would think so, but I've gotten this far without arming myself to the teeth, and I'll carry on.

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