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Thread: Another school shooting, multiple fatalities

  1. #561
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dado potato View Post
    I was just reading about "Make My Day Laws" which are on the books in various states (MT, CO, OH, FL, TX, probably others as well).
    I wonder who came up with that term? Wouldn't it be more accurate to call them "Defense against persons brazen enough to invade an occupied private residence law"?
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  2. #562
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    Here we go again the welfare queen myth made popular by Reagan. Ugh!

  3. #563
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teacher Terry View Post
    Here we go again the welfare queen myth made popular by Reagan. Ugh!
    If that's your take-away, you're not paying attention.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  4. #564
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    Yes, nothing is fool-proof, but we can improve the odds of success if we try. Or to paraphrase Benjamin Franklin, if we stop making people so comfortable in their poverty (economic or moral) they gain incentive to improve themselves.
    Personally I don't think the problem is that people are so comfortable in their poverty that they chose to stay dependant on gov't programs. They stay on those programs because the programs incentivize dependence on them. Do any work and you lose your benefits dollar for dollar, or even worse, lose everything from the program. And if you would need to pay for childcare if you have a job, but lack the skills to get a job that pays better than minimum wage you'll spend your whole income on childcare. We could design better programs that enabled people to get to work that don't jeopardize the minimal amount of economic security that they already have and we would probably see more poor people willing to get out there and become productive.

  5. #565
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    Personally I don't think the problem is that people are so comfortable in their poverty that they chose to stay dependant on gov't programs. They stay on those programs because the programs incentivize dependence on them.
    I agree, just indicating how long the discussion of dependence has been going on in this country.

    One of the major accomplishments of the Clinton administration was welfare reform which was supposed to help transition people from a role of dependence to independence. I'm not sure how well that's going currently but it will likely take generations to overcome the damage done between the 60's and the 90's.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  6. #566
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    Thinking more about this I'll give an example from my own life. Back in 2001 I was unemployed. The state of NY sent me a check each week for $440. I could earn up to $100/week without losing any of the benefit. After that my benefit was reduced dollar for dollar for everything I earned. So I routinely would take one day temp assignments from an agency doing basic admin work. I'd earn $15/hour, which at 7 hours meant $105 income. There was no point in working more than one day a week so I rarely did. The only benefit to working more would be that my total unemployment benefit amount would have stretched beyond the 9 month maximum benefit I could collect. I assumed, correctly as it turned out, that I would have a fulltime job in 9 months so I didn't consider that to be of much use to me.

  7. #567
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    The last time I saw the statistics there were a lot less people on welfare than before Clinton was in office.

  8. #568
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teacher Terry View Post
    The last time I saw the statistics there were a lot less people on welfare than before Clinton was in office.
    I think that's probably correct although I don't have anything to back it up. I only brought it up initially as a factor in the breakup of the nuclear family in so many poor families caught in the cycle of dependence. Respected black economists and social commentators such as Walter Williams, Thomas Sowell and Shelby Steele have long lamented the unintended role of social service programs in destroying whole urban communities and I can attest to the negative impact on the rural communities of my youth as well. Three generations of my extended family are still caught up in the cycle, for many of the same reasons jp1 mentioned, as the path of least resistance.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  9. #569
    Senior Member flowerseverywhere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    I think the more fundamental question to ask is why the exercise of a given right requires justification.
    maybe because of about 100 gun deaths per day in the US.
    I live in the midst of stand your ground gun culture. I see it being more about power and paranoia than self defense. The paranoia is certainly being stoked by the hysteria on the news day in and day out. When you live in a big senior community everyone is home and knows their neighbors. The streets are patrolled at least three times a day. Any violence or theft is minuscule for the size of the population yet I know many people armed to the teeth and never leave the house without concealed carry.

    A big shooting store and range range opened near me. They have a liquor license and a bar. I cannot imagine what could possibly go wrong.

  10. #570
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowerseverywhere View Post
    I cannot imagine what could possibly go wrong.
    I've noticed that hint of distrust at what others may do in every discussion we've ever had on this subject, I can understand that. Two years ago this past Christmas while driving home one evening a woman coming from the other direction decided to cross the center line and hit my car head on. She totaled both of our cars although our cumulative 18 or so airbags and restraint systems ensured that neither of us were hurt.
    Now, over two years later I still pay very close attention to oncoming traffic and don't feel comfortable anymore on my motorcycle, while stopping short of advocating everyone else have their driving privileges suspended and cars taken away. They haven't done anything wrong.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

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