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Thread: Another school shooting, multiple fatalities

  1. #41
    Senior Member Williamsmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    Sure Ws, the tide may have turned about certain legalities becoming illegal, but in. Y ‘Hood it really does nt matter what the law says about who may own which firearms. So these guys who already operate illegally will just jam up,the courts more when/if they are caught. They are back out onnthe streets pretty soon.

    Are ya’ll willing to lock up more young black men for longer periods since that is the demographic flaunting existing gun laws?

    Skinny, nerdy, white shooters in suburbia are pretty uncommon.
    Absolutely spot on. That’s why all the young black men have been kept in the “hood”.....nobody gives a sh!t about their lives. The mass shooters......they are mowing down the cream of our crop. And another reason why something will get done.

    Our government can drop a warhead on the head of a pin that is sitting in a hut in Afghanistan but they can’t identify a 19 year old in a Youtube video threatening to kill kids with guns. I know better.

  2. #42
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    I thought this brought up some good points:

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/16/opini...upp/index.html

  3. #43
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    The alternative to jailing people for talking about shooting people, is to get them court ordered mental health treatment for verbal threats of danger to others. We do it all the time in PHX. There’s 241 beds in my department for such situations.

    There are answers. It’s not “lock them for thought crimes” versus “freedom for dangerous people”.

  4. #44
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    I heard a horrifying yet logical statement today, regarding what happened to go from shotguns hanging in all the pickups parked on high school campuses and nobody shooting up schools, to where we are today... The statement was, "The military draft was abolished. Young men need training on weapons and on learning to live within the confines of society."

    Wow. I never would have thought of it, and haven't heard or read anyone else say it, but then, I'm not a guy who was drafted and trained and sent to Viet Nam.
    And the more I think about it, there probably is a huge truth there.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Williamsmith's Avatar
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    We have lacked an honest dialog. Oh we’ve had a dialog, but it’s been biased, misleading, down right disrespectful to both sides of the issue. Because neither side wants to commit to a game plan for fear of losing their senate seat, house affiliation, future lobbying position, special interest group A++ rating.

    We could creep toward improving the situation based on our unique situation in this country. Please, quit comparing this country to others. We are who we are in large part because of the freedoms we enshrine in our constitution. That includes our tolerance for irresponsible gun ownership and evil gun culture even though we don’t have to shrug our shoulders and have our children cower under an overturned table instead of gaining an education.

    Even though some specific guns are a part of the problem, that doesn’t rule out the effectiveness properly used guns would have to combat the problem. Is there any reason why schools can’t be hardened a little by an investment in security as part of a solution? Could we not do without the unrestrained access to guns that make some people feel like a soldier going to war? Can’t we find money to help address the mental health crisis we have in this country? Could we become a more peaceful nation as a whole by reeling in our worldwide war effort?

    The blood is really starting to become hard to clean up. I’m really surprised there hasn’t been a 60s and 70s style march on Washington DC or even rioting in dissent over the lack of leadership thus far. That goes back several Presidents by the way.

    You know how I’m convinced this is a turning point? Because I’m about as run of the mill average Joe as you can get, I own plenty of firearms, I use them for hunting and self defense. I carried several of them in defense of rule of law for most of my lifetime......and frankly....they don’t give me pleasure anymore, they don’t make me feel secure, and considering having to use one of them makes me sick. I know what a projectile can do to a human body. I’d rather carry a camera these days.

    We are capable of providing solutions. We must make our representatives apply them and mitigate the violence just a little. Our kids and grandkids deserve it.

  6. #46
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tammy View Post
    The alternative to jailing people for talking about shooting people, is to get them court ordered mental health treatment for verbal threats of danger to others. We do it all the time in PHX. There’s 241 beds in my department for such situations.
    Must be nice! In my state, some nights there are *no* available beds for people in crisis, and it’s a real pain to keep them sedated in the back of the ambulance for a few days.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmc View Post
    What has changed since the 50’s, 60’s, and 70’s? I don’t remember hearing about school shootings then. And we use to keep guns in our vehicles during hunting season. It would have been strange to not visit someone’s home that didn’t have a firearm of some sort. And yet the teenagers were not shooting up the school when they got upset.
    My parents generation had rifles and such in vehicles, at least during hunting season. They also made some firearms parts in machine class, and some other stuff. Then a local high school was also the ROTC school. I don't know when that changed as when I was a kid, we moved in response to KC's busing students around and reports of weapon's in schools.
    The ironic part, where we moved to, pocket knives most guys carried (especially if you were involved in scouting), shurikens were carried (and only used for target practice), nun-chucks, etc. In my high school, I had a pistol to the stomach and a knife to my throat, and then they spread the rumor that I was going to blow up the school. (actually had my closest relative apologize to me for telling me to stay in school when half the class stood up and said "he's got a gun")
    I didn't have access to real ones. I could have bought any from a toy store (around the time they started putting orange on the tip), and had access to one full size replica, from a friend who was four years older (most of my friends had graduated before my freshman year).
    As I have said, I was abducted as a kid, and when I got older, I was told to think of one relative in relation to the worst person I knew (by someone who didn't know who that was). Their reason was to teach me how to kill or injure severely in case of what they feared would happen. I was also told, that that, was a last resort, because I could expect the worst person stuff would happen. In my case, it brought thoughts of dissection/vivisection. (serial killer that I knew that dismembered the bodies)
    I was at gun point outside of school, by school kids another time.
    To some degree, I think I know how these shooters feel. I don't feel sorry for the "victims", because in a lot of cases, the ones gone after are those who bullied them. In my friends class (remember 4 years older), the least popular/most bullied kid, started the school on fire (and then became popular). In my class, I was the least popular, but I don't think the MOST bullied. I know we did things like create war games to vent our frustration and had an interest in books such as the anarchist cookbook. I think it helped that my friends were older, because during my senior year, the few that I were close to split apart. (one graduated early, another committed suicide after being drugged/raped by a same sex friend, another was out for most of the year in rehab, relearning to walk after almost being killed in a crash by an uninsured motorist/lost his dream of becoming a cop, and the last was the one that set me up in a situation that put me at gunpoint, because he thought it would be funny.)
    This is turning into a rant, sorry.
    My point needs to be, I knew/learned/had driven into my head, there were consequences for me and violence. The only reason to fight is to kill, and don't expect to survive. I did get beat up once good (just missed knocking my eye out), as I knew it was take it, or take them off the second story and go down as well.

    All these participation trophy things, are not teaching consequences.
    Kids have a sense of invulnerability where they think they will just bounce back.

  8. #48
    Senior Member flowerseverywhere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tammy View Post
    The alternative to jailing people for talking about shooting people, is to get them court ordered mental health treatment for verbal threats of danger to others. We do it all the time in PHX. There’s 241 beds in my department for such situations.

    There are answers. It’s not “lock them for thought crimes” versus “freedom for dangerous people”.
    the tricky thing about mental health is as Bae mentioned, lack of beds. the laws are very tricky for keeping people in on involuntary status, it costs money and a third difficulty non compliance to medication. When you work in Mental health there are frequent fliers. Clean them up, get some food and meds in them, but unless they are a danger to themselves or others it is back out the door until the next crisis. At least when I spent my years in mental health facilities. Decreasing access to health care through cutting Medicaid will not help.

    lots of great posts here explaining everyone’s feelings and the input has remained civil and informative. For once, no one said it was Trumps or Obama’s fault. Because it goes back quite a few presidents and lawmakers on all levels and parties. But we the people have to figure out what to do before More kids are slaughtered. Thoughts and prayers are not enough.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by mschrisgo2 View Post
    I heard a horrifying yet logical statement today, regarding what happened to go from shotguns hanging in all the pickups parked on high school campuses and nobody shooting up schools, to where we are today... The statement was, "The military draft was abolished. Young men need training on weapons and on learning to live within the confines of society."

    Wow. I never would have thought of it, and haven't heard or read anyone else say it, but then, I'm not a guy who was drafted and trained and sent to Viet Nam.
    And the more I think about it, there probably is a huge truth there.
    gun responsibility is a great thing, but living among many Vietnam Veterans I see many shattered men so many years after. Perhaps our willinglness to get involved in foreign wars with no clear objective or specific outcome , like defeating Hitler, has contributed to all of this. What were we doing in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan for instance? Why have we sent so many of our young men to hostile foreign lands to destroy and kill? What is the matter with us? Does anyone really think we are going to win in the Middle East?

  10. #50
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    Oh - our 241 beds are usually full and there’s on average about 30 patients sitting in emergency depts waiting on our next available bed.

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