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Thread: Another school shooting, multiple fatalities

  1. #271
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    I’m pretty sure the Supreme Court went into some detail on this:

    https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/554/570/
    Scalia himself went into some detail about the dubious right of citizens to own military-style weapons, and the legality of various existing regulations.

    Justice Scalia in re Heller:

    “It may be objected that if weapons that are most useful in military service — M-16 rifles and the like — may be banned, then the Second Amendment right is completely detached from the prefatory clause. But as we have said, the conception of the militia at the time of the Second Amendment’s ratification was the body of all citizens capable of military service, who would bring the sorts of lawful weapons that they possessed at home to militia duty. It may well be true today that a militia, to be as effective as militias in the 18th century, would require sophisticated arms that are highly unusual in society at large. Indeed, it may be true that no amount of small arms could be useful against modern-day bombers and tanks. But the fact that modern developments have limited the degree of fit between the prefatory clause and the protected right cannot change our interpretation of the right.”

    The prefatory clause to which the justice refers, of course, is the one about “a well-regulated militia.” The AR-15, used in San Bernardino, is an M-16 knockoff.

    So rather than saying “assault weapons,” in the future perhaps we should say “the kinds of weapons that Justice Antonin Scalia has defined as ‘dangerous and unusual’ and subject to regulation or an outright ban under the Second Amendment.” From the NYT Dec. 11, 2015

    This wasn't an egregious decision, IMO, but it shouldn't be held up as a blanket approbation of any and all firearms. Heller was a peace officer--you might say a member of a militia, which put an interesting spin on it.

  2. #272
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    The AR-15, used in San Bernardino, is an M-16 knockoff.
    Would it bother you if I corrected this statement? It's the other way around, the M-16 is a modified version of the previously existing AR-15.
    The AR-15 was designed and produced for civilian use in the mid 50's and the M-16 was the military's modified version, created in the early 60's.

    I think it's interesting that the AR-15 was in use for nearly 50 years before anyone labeled it an assault weapon. It didn't change, but something else surely did.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  3. #273
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    What civilian use, one wonders.

    I'm clearly not an expert in firearms. The closest I've come to one was one night when a drag queen (who apparently felt he needed protection) asked me to hold his jacket, and warned me there was a pistol aboard.

  4. #274
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    What civilian use, one wonders.
    Do we also wonder why Rosa Parks needed to sit in the front of the bus? No, of course not.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  5. #275
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    Alan, at what point do you believe it is appropriate to begin shooting government officials and/or police officers? Or would it b e the national guard or the army at that point?

  6. #276
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicken lady View Post
    Alan, at what point do you believe it is appropriate to begin shooting government officials and/or police officers? Or would it b e the national guard or the army at that point?
    What an odd question! The only time it's ever justified to use deadly force against anyone is to protect yourself or another from imminent serious bodily harm or death. I don't understand the police officer/government official part.

    By the way, in Ohio that's the correct answer to one of the test questions all Concealed Carry permit holders must pass. Betcha didn't know that, did you?
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  7. #277
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    Did not know that. Can’t actually imagine a scenario in which I would need to.

    Rosa Parks was advocating for equal rights when she sat at the front of the bus - civilian use of civil disobedience.

    so I saw an implied parallel to civilian use of an AR-15 to protect or secure ones rights. Which led to the question. So, to closely follow Jane, what do you see as the appropriate civilian use of an AR-15?

    A volunteer at the food bank thinks it is to allow us to be armed at a level that would allow us to resist the government because the only thing standing between us and a police state is the right to have an AR-15. I do not agree with him. But I am glad that he recently had his cataracts removed.

  8. #278
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    I don't think that's the only thing standing between us and a police state, but history has shown that all police states disarm their citizens. Do you think they might be related?
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  9. #279
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    No one is talking about taking pistols and rifles away. Or sufficient ammo to keep the enemy at bay.

  10. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    No one is talking about taking pistols and rifles away. Or sufficient ammo to keep the enemy at bay.
    An AR15 is a rifle. It is exactly what they are talking about.

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