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Thread: Another school shooting, multiple fatalities

  1. #111
    Senior Member Williamsmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CathyA View Post
    I can't express myself as well as many of you here. But I just want to say that I am totally distressed that some gun owners can't give one small iota to try to help a horrendous-out of control situation. I mean give me an f'ing break........assault rifles???? You can't even give a centimeter on that. You keep referring to the second amendment. Well, then, maybe everyone who screams that it's their right, should be allowed all the muskets they want. Not only is it ridiculous to allow a right to something that was in a totally different world when that amendment was made, but how can you possibly think that controlling some guns somehow cannot be any part of a solution?

    I'm astounded at the difference of our minds here. Are some gun owners so paranoid that they can't see past their own fears? Are they so rebellious that they'll be damned if anyone tries to take away all their weapons..........even the ones that were meant for war? I can only shake my head in disbelief and sadness that we have come to the point of absolutely wanting nothing done to stop this carnage........other than more people using more guns. Unbelievable.
    Like most arguments when each side refuses to understand the other then they separate. At this point the two sides seem to have decided they each are right. To the guns rights advocate the word “compromise” is treason. To the anti gun person the other side is represented by evil, ignorant, mostly white male nitwits.

    The guns rights advocate is insulted that the antis don’t learn that an “assault weapon” is a term made up to demonize the semiautomatic rifle that cosmetically appears the same as a battle rifle but does not function the same. There is no select fire option which allows it to function in automatic “machinegun” mode. So it would help if people would familiarize themselves with the firearm they are trying to restrict.

    Both sides have massaged their facts and statistics to favor their argument and frankly have outright lied and spread propaganda. How do the two sides reconcile when each distrusts the other? There are a minority of gun owners who claim they will resist. I have to be rather skeptical because government can “encourage” them to comply with financial starvation. And so I think it is in everyone’s best interest to ....dare I say it.....Compromise. The many will suffer for the fews inability to handle firearms in a mature and respectful manner.

  2. #112
    Senior Member CathyA's Avatar
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    I appreciate what you are saying, Williamsmith...........and we'll see what happens with the laws. It just seems to me that we're willing to allow some freedoms, at an incredibly high cost. As has been said before, there are more gun deaths every day in other places, than happens at these mass shootings. Uh.....yeah.......so why are we all insisting on rights that are destroying us......just to adhere to an amendment that wasn't meant for this society in this time.

    I see the U.S. as starting out with good intentions, but has gone haywire with rights. I know there is a fine line between rights and no rights.........but I like to think of some of our rights as like bad viruses in our bodies. How can we accept them as "having a right to be there", if they kill some people. Sure, some people get the virus and die, and some don't. Should the people who don't get it and don't die support the virus's right to be there? We're getting more and more problems because everyone demands their own individual rights, without concern for the good of the whole. As far as all the bad that's happening in this country.........I fear the horse is out of the barn. We've all grown so accustomed to feeling we have the right to have and do anything we want.

  3. #113
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    I don't think we suffer from an overabundance of rights. I think we suffer from a deficit of responsibility.

  4. #114
    Senior Member CathyA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    I don't think we suffer from an overabundance of rights. I think we suffer from a deficit of responsibility.
    yes, but we don't punish people enough for when they are irresponsible. We're too soft on them, so that the fear of what can happen to them isn't strong, they know the punishment wont' be too bad. What we expect from everyone these days is low. What our country puts its money into, isn't to improve the citizens.

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    But people never say it that way. They always say "well, what the eff is the point of outlawing guns since outlaws will always have guns anyway... It's just hopeless. oh my, thoughts and prayers... That's the best we can do..." I'd much rather they be honest and say "your dead kids are sacrificing their lives so that I can own a bunch of damn guns." But of course that's not the way they say it because they'd sound like psychopaths.
    Being honest would ask, what do we defend our president with? What do we defend our public with via police or military? What do we have standing around at banks? And what do we defend our kids with? The answers are Guns, guns, armed guards and a sign that says NO GUN ZONE.
    Yes we have more gun violence then other countries, because we have more guns. Other countries have more knife violence, car violence, bomb making, etc. because of access. We even have that stuff here, and yet we are not blaming knives, alcohol, cars or other inanimate objects.
    Quote Originally Posted by CathyA View Post
    I can't express myself as well as many of you here. But I just want to say that I am totally distressed that some gun owners can't give one small iota to try to help a horrendous-out of control situation. I mean give me an f'ing break........assault rifles???? You can't even give a centimeter on that. You keep referring to the second amendment. Well, then, maybe everyone who screams that it's their right, should be allowed all the muskets they want. Not only is it ridiculous to allow a right to something that was in a totally different world when that amendment was made, but how can you possibly think that controlling some guns somehow cannot be any part of a solution?

    I'm astounded at the difference of our minds here. Are some gun owners so paranoid that they can't see past their own fears? Are they so rebellious that they'll be damned if anyone tries to take away all their weapons..........even the ones that were meant for war? I can only shake my head in disbelief and sadness that we have come to the point of absolutely wanting nothing done to stop this carnage........other than more people using more guns. Unbelievable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Williamsmith View Post
    The guns rights advocate is insulted that the antis don’t learn that an “assault weapon” is a term made up to demonize the semiautomatic rifle that cosmetically appears the same as a battle rifle but does not function the same. There is no select fire option which allows it to function in automatic “machinegun” mode. So it would help if people would familiarize themselves with the firearm they are trying to restrict.

    Both sides have massaged their facts and statistics to favor their argument and frankly have outright lied and spread propaganda. How do the two sides reconcile when each distrusts the other? There are a minority of gun owners who claim they will resist. I have to be rather skeptical because government can “encourage” them to comply with financial starvation. And so I think it is in everyone’s best interest to ....dare I say it.....Compromise. The many will suffer for the fews inability to handle firearms in a mature and respectful manner.
    In a time of war, everything is a weapon, the most important one being the ones man has had the longest, his hands and his brain. All weapons are weapons of war. (includes others such as the first amendment) Cathy would be wise to learn what that rifle actually is as well as watch the video that has been listed before on magazine capacity verse a person. If you can't make valid points, you do get ignored as a screaming child, when wanting to have an actual REASONING conversation. There is some logic to the concept of we should have the same "weapons of war" that our government has, and in reality, we do and have in the past saw what happens when we divide on an issue (civil war where weapons that belong to the people are used by the people/brothers etc, against one another).
    One argument I have yet to see brought about is what rights are you willing to give up in compromise Cathy? Your free speech right, the right to vote, the right to your life, your liberty, or your pursuit of happiness? Some other right in the bill of rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    I don't think we suffer from an overabundance of rights. I think we suffer from a deficit of responsibility.
    Certainly the shooter did, the FBI did, all those kids who teased the shooter mercilessly did, as well as those who knew/saw the posts and didn't report him, or act on them do. Making innocent people suffer loss of rights because of one persons wrong, is not responsibility either.

  6. #116
    Senior Member CathyA's Avatar
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    You're always so kind and patient with me ToomuchStuff. I don't insult you when you don't make sense to me.
    Killing is Killing, whether it's a fast gun or a slower one. I don't care what the hell you call it, if it can kill a lot of people in a very short time, it's too fast.

  7. #117
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    Better get rid of these then:
    https://www.cnn.com/2016/07/25/world...ths/index.html
    and a poorly designed setup with a pressure cooker:
    https://www.cnn.com/2013/06/03/us/bo...cts/index.html

  8. #118
    Senior Member Williamsmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToomuchStuff View Post
    Better get rid of these then:
    https://www.cnn.com/2016/07/25/world...ths/index.html
    and a poorly designed setup with a pressure cooker:
    https://www.cnn.com/2013/06/03/us/bo...cts/index.html
    The argument that we shouldnít get rid of x because it will do nothing to stop y and z from harming us is not going to gain any traction now. We will get rid of x because it happens to be offensive to our sensitivities right now. Then we will worry about y and z later. Like Governor Kasich of Ohio queried....Are you really going to tell me giving up AR15s is going to seriously impact your second amendment rights? Or something like that. I think antis have a tremendous ability to restrict firearms in this country if they play it right. The pendulum is swinging in their favor.

  9. #119
    Senior Member CathyA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToomuchStuff View Post
    Better get rid of these then:
    https://www.cnn.com/2016/07/25/world...ths/index.html
    and a poorly designed setup with a pressure cooker:
    https://www.cnn.com/2013/06/03/us/bo...cts/index.html
    There have been 8 mass shootings in just, what, 7 weeks this year already. How often has that occurred with a pressure cooker or knife? Of course, there will always be crazy people around.......but things shouldn't be stacked in their favor.
    And I imagine if that much destruction was done that often with a pressure cooker.....then we'd start taking names of people who buy them and have background checks, etc.

    Don't be silly.

  10. #120
    Senior Member Williamsmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    We've banned and criminalized at various times alcohol and illegal drugs without much success. Some of us have suggested we change societal norms, using social and peer pressure to influence anti-social behaviors but all that gets is accusations of intolerance, racism, sexism and religious fundamentalism (even if you're an atheist). The only other thing I can think of is to ensure innocent targets have the protection they deserve, and I think that a teacher using a legal weapon to save their lives would be well remembered as the students grow. My level of compassion in wanting them to survive at any cost may seem strange to some, but there it is.
    Id like to get Alan to comeback and respond to his idea of arming school teachers. We can agree mass shootings are rare compared to the school days logged without incident. The CDC reports that roughly 2000 high school age students committed suicide in a years time. As an armed teacher would you be prepared to shoot and kill a student who brought a facsimile handgun to school and pulled it out in the middle of class? Heís standing in the middle of class with what looks like a Glock 19 and you are armed. Within seconds you have to discharge at least a round into him without harming other students. If you accomplish this, then you find out he has a dummy gun and just wanted to die.

    Incidents like this will happen. In fact, there will be incidents where teachers will be making split second decisions of shoot donít shoot and Iím not sure any teacher wants that responsibility or should have to bear that responsibility.

    Now whta kind of liability do the tax payers of that school district incur?

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